But that says nothing about how the marketing is performing in terms of total sales and holdoff sales by competitors. It doesn't matter if there is griping or complaints about pre-release clips vs surprising everyone. And since when does a surprise release suppress gripes and anti-fan-boys from dissing a product no matter how good it is. What matters is how well the campaign is working for Panasonic. Look at the Black Magic early release cycles of the past. People got very aggravated with long delays, but that didn't stop them from buying the camera.
EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates
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But that says nothing about how the marketing is performing in terms of total sales and holdoff sales by competitors. It doesn't matter if there is griping or complaints about pre-release clips vs surprising everyone. And since when does a surprise release suppress gripes and anti-fan-boys from dissing a product no matter how good it is. What matters is how well the campaign is working for Panasonic. Look at the Black Magic early release cycles of the past. People got very aggravated with long delays, but that didn't stop them from buying the camera.
What was insulting? And where am I saying it's all subjective? Because I'm not.
To me, Panasonic isn't doing much different than what anyone else does. Except they have Mitch doing the advance PR work for them and no one else is really following suit (yes, there's been a few Canon posts on the C200 threads and, many a moon ago, an AJA Cion engineer posted ... plus, of course, Mitch and Dan Keaton have/had participated on behalf of Convergent Design). And, if everyone does the same thing, then it works as a marketing campaign, regardless whether the camera itself is a success or not.
PS. Apple gets so much free PR for its phones, it doesn't even need to advertise them much. It's kind of like the exchange between Jorge Garcia and Larry David on an episode of "CYE". "This is marijuana, a product that sells itself".
PS. Apple gets so much free PR for its phones, it doesn't even need to advertise them much. It's kind of like the exchange between Jorge Garcia and Larry David on an episode of "CYE". "This is marijuana, a product that sells itself".
icarusfilm
Veteran
Also iPhones are marketed to basically everyone. A camera like the eva1 is aiming at a micro segment of owner operators that are willing to spend more than 5 but less than 10k on a cinema style camera.
...Or in the Panasonic ecosystem it would be more than 5k and less than what a Varicam LT costs, which is a pretty big gap.
Danilo Del Tufo
Well-known member
Mitch, one thing that really worried me is the EVA1's LCD. Will it be sufficient enough to focus (at 4K) on that tiny little monitor? Or you need a more large monitor? Is it simple to achieve or we'll just using "one push autofocus" to solve the problem? I'm still confused about squares and how much they must become "big" to assure you're in focus and I think when the subject is moving could be very complex (a screen full of squares that covers your shot) ! I've seen fleetingly just a couple of videos about it, but without any clear explanation. Thanks!
NorBro
Major Contributor
IMO, small screens will never be sufficient...no matter from which company they are coming from.
If you would like better chances of maintaining 100% critical focus at all times, you're through and through will always be a high-quality EVF, a high-quality 7"+ external monitor...
...and lots and lots of practice/experience.
Focusing tools/assists will always get in the way. Overtime you learn how to work with them and when. Toggling them on/off (if possible) becomes second-nature.
If you would like better chances of maintaining 100% critical focus at all times, you're through and through will always be a high-quality EVF, a high-quality 7"+ external monitor...
...and lots and lots of practice/experience.
Focusing tools/assists will always get in the way. Overtime you learn how to work with them and when. Toggling them on/off (if possible) becomes second-nature.
...From my experience shooting with the GH4/GH5 I would not want to pull 4K focus on anything smaller than a 7 inch monitor, which is way too big to be a built-in camera monitor.
Alternatively a 1080p EVF would probably do the trick, but this would likely add about $2K to the price of the camera.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I found the LCD to not only being small, it also has info text to small to read comfortable. It doesn't look to bright either.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
yeah, I've got a SmallHD 702 Bright and an Odyssey 7Q+ -- both with 7" screens that I can use. I've had very limited time on the Varicam LT but the focus squares were pretty great and I look forward to having them on the EVA1. But an EVF *is* going to be crucial for me as my eyes get worse. So I'm currently debating between the Gratical HD and Gratical Eye. It was hinted that a top company that makes batteries might manufacture one that will power the camera but also have a regulated 12v D-Tap port for an EVF. If that comes to fruition, I'll go with the Gratical Eye so I can keep the rig as leightweight as possible.
icarusfilm
Veteran
I have the Zacuto Eye and cannot imagine working without it. If you are working handheld its really a must long term. Your eyes are much less strained because you see focus clearly the image is uncluttered and very importantly it is extremely fog resistant. I also had the Gratical HD but the eye is half the size and weight which makes a huge difference because it sits very far forward on the rig where every gram matters. Also the Gratical ends all the LUT issues of the FS7. i don't think you will be able to power the EVA1 and the zacuto f through one battery because the eva1 is a 7.2 Volt and the Zacuto takes 12v.
Jason R. Johnston
Well-known member
I’m old school. I need an EVF. I can suffer with just an LCD, but I am at home with an EVF. That little monitor on the EVA1 is admittedly not fantastic, but it’s really there to suffice in lieu of a better monitor or for very small setups, but mostly as a touch screen for the lovely Varicam-like menu structure. Either a very good LCD or (better) an excellent EVF is a crucial investment for any camera. Zacuto does make some pretty alright ones, and I hear excellent reviews regarding DIY modding of the Blackmagic Ursa EVF with kits from Wooden Camera or Tilta. But be prepared to spend ~$1800 on something competent. But, buy once and cry once is just fine with me. Next to the camera itself, I’d argue that the EVF is the most important piece of the system. Don’t slouch.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
That's really my sticking point with the EVA 1, that to make one workable (for me) with the Gratical Eye, you are talking close to $10k plus yes, you would need to use 14.4 batteries for the D-Tap and then have to step it down to power the EVA 1 or use the Gratical which is a bit big and clunky for so petite of a camera. And a brick on the back of an EVA 1 is kind of defeating the whole purpose of a small and light camera. Even on my C200, I am only using the bricks on tripod. When I go handheld, I am using the BP-30s as the brick just makes the whole thing too large and cumbersome on the shoulder. I have the Zacuto EVF Pro but wouldn't you know it, the C200 cannot assign a 709 LUT to HDMI out only but it will to SDI but that does me no good as the EVF Pro is HDMI only. But back to the EVA 1, I agree with what has been mentioned with the on-board monitor, it's not bright and the fonts with the menu items are tiny. I would have to have an EVF with the EVA 1 although I tried a Zacuto Loupe on the camera and it made it more usable but a little kludgy, I never liked loupes, they feel as if they will fall off and are barely held on. The monitor arm on the test mule EVA 1 at the Hollywood event was broken and wouldn't support the monitor with the loupe on it.
FWIW, the EVF on the C200, while it is in the stupid place at the rear, only good for shooting cradled or on tripod, is really, really good. It looks great.
FWIW, the EVF on the C200, while it is in the stupid place at the rear, only good for shooting cradled or on tripod, is really, really good. It looks great.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
There have been rumblings that an as yet unnamed company (SWIT?) has plans for a battery that will provide 7.2v to the camera, with a regulated 12v or 14.4v D-Tap port on the back of it. Won't need the EVF until November so waiting to see if this thing actually materializes.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
First just one thing out of the way:
You dish it out but can also take it. Respect. Way too many thin skinned people around these parts.
The thing is when you speak now it's like Panasonic is speaking. So what you say carries a different weight, in both directions. When you say the EVA1 looks great, the EVA1 is easy to get a good result from , the EVA1 can be used right out of the box and deliver gorgeous images etc it doesn't really carry any weight. Sorry. You are selling it. What else are you going to say? Everybody is thankful for you being here and giving specs and other facts. But as far as your opinion about the image, you should not be surprised or take it personally (not saying you do) if people don't take it as gospel. Especially if the images so far don't really point that way. If it looks great or is easy to get great images from is not for Panasonic or you to say. It's for the public. Not even the people who buy it. But the general camera crowd. The crowd will ultimately decide if all that is true. If it is then a consensus will be formed that it looks great and is easy to get great results from. This is how it works in the end.
Every camera has a default setting. The question is does it look great just that way? This is a question you or Panasonic can't answer. Like I said it's not even a question most owners can answer in an honest way. It's a question the general camera crowd will answer once the camera is out. Most buyers are in a honey moon period when they buy a new camera and will only admit to the camera's faults when they move on to their next camera. If you have been around in this business long enough you have seen it happening over and over. But images don't lie. Owners can say all they want the camera looks great in their opinion. But if clip after clip online from the camera looks like video, cheap, bad skins etc this is the camera. Not what the manufacturer or the fans say.
I bought a FS7 and from the beginning I was criticizing it. I got down voted a lot on the Sony forum for it. Few other FS7 owners would come out and say it. Most had only praise. But I never felt like treating my camera like a darling just because I owned one. I pointed all the faults as I saw. Because how good was it to play blind and look to the other side pretending the camera was all roses when all the FS7 clips online told another story? I never saw a single FS7 clip that made me think the camera looked fantastic or even great. I never shot anything on the FS7 which I thought looked fantastic or even great. It always left something to be desired. It needed a lot of massaging just to start looking good. That is not an easy to use camera. It doesn't matter how many menu options there were. They could never help me and I honestly never seen them helping anybody. So I was never happy with it. Too much work for nothing. This all went away when I sold the FS7 and moved on to my next camera. I was finally happy.
So nobody can say now how the EVA1 will be. Saying it is like a Varicam is not saying much. First for that to be any compliment one has to actually like the Varicam. Second it's so subjective that it's a worthless statement.
Besides all that the point was not really about the EVA1 but about cameras in general. To me it was. I know this is an EVA1 thread. But I was talking about cameras in general. That cameras should be easy to get great results from. In a perfect world you would never need to touch menus apart from the obvious stuff like WB, frame rate etc. If you want to style the image it's different. But you should not have to mess with menus just to get a great image out of it. This is with any camera. I was not questioning the EVA1. Because nobody can say anything yet. Not Panasonic, not you not anybody yet. Only once the camera is out will the camera crowd speak the verdict. Then we will all know.
Anybody who doesn't want an easy to use camera must not use cameras.
Hard to know where to begin to parse all of this, so I'll just take the simple route.
- People really like the VariCam look. DPs and Colorists tell us all the time and cite it as a primary reason they use the camera. So we're gonna believe them.
- The engineering team at Panasonic have specifically formulated the EVA1 to match the look of the VariCam. In fact LUTs used on one will also apply to the other.
- Therefore the EVA1 will have the look that many people have stated they really like.
- End.
You may choose to believe what I write or not, but there are some established baselines. Rain is wet. Nazis are bad (to most of us). Chocolate is delicious. The VariCam makes an attractive image.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
We have a few focus assist tools. Peaking, which it is traditional edge coloring for in-focus elements, Focus Squares, which are pretty easy to get used to and see through, and Expand, which allows you to zoom in on the image in the LCD to check focus (even while recording). With a bit o practice it should not be difficult to consistently achieve focus. For example, on her film Near to Superstition, Elle Schneider shot some pickup shots one afternoon where it was just her with two actors. Having never done it before, she used the Focus Squares to pull her own focus and reported that it was easy to maintain focus throughout. With her grab & go shoot she expected to have a few bad focus takes, but said that everything came back in perfect focus.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Everyone has his/her own style. FYI, any of the User Buttons can be set to toggle the Focus Assist on/off.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
More than a hint or a rumble. I discussed this with a third party company. They said they could do it, and are currently deciding if they will make the product. It would be wrong for me to speak for another company. If and when this company decided to offer this product it's up to it to come forward.
filmguy123
Veteran
I like Mitch's post, and I also like Sttratos post.
I will just point out in the most neutral way possible that matching LUTs only refer to Varicam color and curves, not the wholistic Varicam "look". My impression based on footage seen so far is that the Varicam LT looks distinct from the EVA-1. Clearly they are different price points, and different sensors (EVA-1 5.7k, different size photosites, different processing, etc.)
Excited that the engineers have worked hard to match the look. Extremely excited to see the next batch of footage and see something that wets my whistle more in the other areas of interest besides color.
If it really does have that whole-picture "Varicam look", I agree that is one of the best looking images on market, and it will make the camera an instant buy for me.
Plus, Panasonic's ergos and menu design have always been second-to-none for me, and beat the snot out of sony (my personal preference).
In another thread as well, but just a heads up for anyone in or who can get to Sydney:
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