Retrospective
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EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates
- Thread starter soarprod
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alaskacameradude
Veteran
Yeah, I'm basically waiting for a FS5 with FS7 codecs. That would make me happy.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
May I note that if you strip the two cameras down to their cores (lose handles, grips, viewfinder, etc.), the VariCam LT is about 2.4 pounds heavier than the EVA1. One could choose a lightweight LCD, ultralight LiIon batteries and a simple handle from Small Rig or Wooden Camera, and the result would be a pretty light & small powerhouse solution that's also quite affordable. Just sayin', if you want to compare cameras then you should do so apples to apples. Panasonic is happy to sell you a stripped down camera body only on the VariCam LT so you can grow your own kit.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
You're a few years early for that. It will get there eventually.
filmguy123
Veteran
2.4lbs heavier is 2x the weight... makes a huge difference handheld. And the stripped down options are tough on LT the lightweight batteries don't last long and then you have to have a ton of batteries, too. LT is great camera just hard for OMB... it's why I'm more excited about cameras like the FS5, GH5, and obviously the EVA-1. And why I have no complaint about the price! (Actually that was my initial point - the price is worth it, and I would even pay a premium for even more power at this size / weight, if/when technologically feasible).
Yes and they have fans as loud as lawn mowers. Small size means hard to deal with heat.
To me it looks like you just don't have the business model to support something at the price of a Varicam. Because 15lbs for a full rig is not too heavy. Not for a production camera. 2.4lbs extra doesn't make any difference for handheld unless you have osteoporosis or something. Sorry. Movies shoot Alexa handheld all the time. Nobody switches to a little camera when they do handheld really. Not even now with the Alexa mini I would think they all switch. But they have the budget to shoot this way. They have money to pay a couple of ACs etc. The LT is not too big. It's only too big if you are a no budget guy or if you need a Gopro. So let's put things in the right boxes here. Saying 2.4lbs extra is too much for a production camera sounds silly.
I choose a silent camera over silly K numbers. We have enough Ks. The K race is silly.
filmguy123
Veteran
Oh come on sttratos, that's such a pigeon holed perspective. It's true for some business models, and some projects, but not "better" business models. And Panasonic knows it too - it's why the EVA-1 is built and marketed as a small lightweight camera. It's why compromises were made at all - to keep the size and weight down. Apparently that's a marketable priority, and your quite mistaken if you think the only people after powerful cameras in a small/lightweight package are too poor to afford something bigger.
filmguy123
Veteran
I'd sure say it was implied, unless of course being a "no budget guy" is better than having the business model to support something at the price of a Varicam.
No offense taken, given that I'm quite thrilled with my business model and lifestyle - I'm merely pointing out that the implication that $8000 smaller/lighter cameras have no place unless you have no budget is as hilariously inaccurate as stating that something like a scaled down Varicam is only too big or heavy if you have "osteoporosis or something".
It's not my fault if you understood something I never wrote. You can have the business model to support the Varicam and in the end make as much profit in a shoot as a no budget guy, because you have more overheads. Business models are not better. They only have to be fitting.
And again, you are putting thoughts in your own mind or trying to put words in my mouth. I never said a smaller and lighter camera have no place unless you have no budget. Otherwise Gopro would never exist. It doesn't matter if you have millions. Sometimes only a Gopro sized camera will do.
What I actually said was, the LT is not too big for a production camera and it is not. An Alexa is much bigger and people do handleheld with it all the time. Now if you had said the LT was too big for a POV camera, you would have a point. If you had said it was too big for a drone, even though we have drones that can fly it, I could still give you some credit. But to say it is too big for handheld? Unless you are a child it makes no sense. And to go on and say an extra 2.4lbs is a deal breaker for handheld is comical. Hence the osteoporosis sting.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I shot behind the scenes for S5 Prison Break in Morocco last year. The show shot mostly on Alexa Mini. The camera ops told me that once the Mini is kitted out with all of the stuff that they need, (Teradeks, FTZ motors, etc.) it really ends up being almost as big and heavy as the stripped down Alexa on the shoulder and it is an almost exclusively handheld and Steadicam show. On the low end, I even run into that on my cameras. A C100 or C300 with a Zacuto VCT Pro Baseplate, Wooden Camera 15mm rid to Arri Rosette adapter, Tilta 6.5" Arri extensions, Wooden Camera Grip Relocater, Zacuto EVF, Atomos Ninja Blade, ULCS Arm to hold EVF, Small Rig Top Plate and handle adapter, then pair it with either the 17-55 2.8 IS or the 70-200 2.8 IS II and I just took a 2-3 lb camera up to 13-16lbs, depending on which body and lens I use. When I get the C200, I will be adding rear rods to the VCT Pro Baseplate to mount a Wooden Camera Battery Plate and a 177Wh Max Oak V-Mount, adding another few pounds. I will still sometimes shoot it with the stock battery and nothing else but it seems as if more often I am called upon to shoot with a big rig with all of the accessories, because of various job requirements.
Yes, the Varicam LT is significantly heavier than the EVA1 but it is bearable as a complete production package, heavy but well balanced. Not as maneuverable as the EVA1 will be, that's why having both will be ideal. Many lower end users try to buy one camera for everything which is a mistake. The big boys often have two or three different cameras on set, each purpose built for a specific task. Horses for courses.
OK, I'll play.
I've never owned an EF mount anything, so I'm going by specs. And I like zoom lenses, a carryover from my Beta SP days, I suppose.
1. Canon CN-E 18-80. - A servo zoom lens is always welcome on a video camera. But that price! So, it's probably not doable on my budget.
2. Sigma 18-35 f1.8 ART
3. Sigma 50-100 f1.8 ART - I've used both these Sigmas with adapters on an FS7 and A7S and loved them both. Very nice images. Not too bad, price wise.
4. Canon EF-S 17-55 f2.8 - Very effective zoom range, I'll take it in another brand, too.
5. Canon 70-200 f2.8 - You always need a long zoom. I'd take a cheaper brand as well, like a Tamron.
Honorable mention - Canon 24-105 f4. This is the quintessential Canon lens, but if I remember, they breathe horribly during rack focusing.
And the Fuji 18-55 cine zoom, if Fuji ever makes it in an EF mount.
But to start off with an EVA kit, I'd probably go with the Sigmas. They'd handle the majority of my needs. They're both crazy fast for a zoom.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Yes but you are talking a used camera with a history and no warranty vs a brand new camera. Yeah that does matter to people who invest this much in a camera. Are you really that concerned about a $2,000 difference (which may be less once we find out the actual street price) to sacrifice a warranty and peace of mind knowing the camera didn't suffer any damage or abuse?
I'm also not a big fan of investing in Sony E-mount lenses. I'm sure they are great lenses but it is a very closed lens system with really no support outside of Sony cameras. EF lenses are now the unofficial industry standard like it or not and that makes the EVA a much more realistic options for Canon DSLR shooters, Canon cinema shooters, Varicam shooters, m43 shooters who use a focal reducer and BMD cinema shooters. So yeah if anybody is coming from any one of those backgrounds the EVA makes a heck of a lot more sense than a FS7.
We also don't have the full specs yet so how can you say the FS7 is better or a better value? That is like judging the differences between two steaks based on reading about the cows. Specs don't always mean everything and I think it is important to wait for the full specs and actually see what the camera can do before we start to pass judgement on price as if we are some sort of camera manufacturing experts. Yes the EVA is missing internal 10bit at 4k 60p but really that is a minor concern in the scope of what the camera may provide. 8bit doesn't mean bad looking it just means it doesn't have the color range and could potentially show more banding in difficult situations. The EVA is almost a 6k camera for the price of a 4k FS7. Oversampling is a big deal and can have a large impact on the quality of a 4k delivery. Its part of the reason why RED and BMD has moved beyond just a straight 4k sensor when it comes to 4k delivery and why ARRI is even now moving towards 6k.
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G
Guest
Guest
I know you meant to say it, but EF-mount lenses (not EF lenses. As I rarely use Canon lenses, but often use EF-mount)
Well, the Red MX's were supposedly not true 4K. I can tell from shooting in 2K mode, that it is not very sharp. All of these Bayer Pattern sensors require larger resolution to mix down to true 4K or ability to crop without noticeable blurriness.
I am skeptical on what that 5.7K resolution really is. I assume there is a lot of interpolating to get that number. As a shooter, I do not generally crop, and so I would prefer sharp 4K over murky fake 6K. Seems like a redundant step in the process. That said, options are never bad. It's just all the complications that come with all the caveats and irregularities. Conversations with Directors and producers get frustrating, and post workflow is over complicated. It is fine for making an indie film.... which is where this camera and the C200 seem to be lining up. As it is not for the pro user, and not for the enthusiast.
But until the official numbers on this camera come out, I won't comment too much more.
filmguy123
Veteran
Come on Strattos, no one said the LT was too big for a "production camera". Of course it's not. I said its too big for me. And judging by the interest in the EVA-1 size/weight, others feel it's too big for them as well. Besides, "Production" is a pretty big word these days, isn't it?
I'm aware you can make as much profit as the business models that support Varicam LT (IE larger production teams, and not OMB/independent shooters - the self proclaimed target audience of the EVA-1). And that's my point. And that's why it is MY business model. I shoot OMB not due to lack of budget, but due to desire for higher creative freedom, flexibility, and often higher profit margins. Big budget, no overhead. And for my tastes, more fun.
Put another way on p163:
So what exactly is your point? To agree with me that I'm not the target market of the Varicam LT? Or just to tell me that I'm feeble and weak for preferring EVA-1 sized cameras?
Bottom line, I'm young and in very good shape, and the Varicam LT is too heavy for me to work with all day solo, in run'n'gun situations, as a Director/DP/Camera Op/etc. handheld. I can affirm I am not a child, but I will schedule an appointment to check for osteoporosis per your recommendation.
I'm aware you can make as much profit as the business models that support Varicam LT (IE larger production teams, and not OMB/independent shooters - the self proclaimed target audience of the EVA-1). And that's my point. And that's why it is MY business model. I shoot OMB not due to lack of budget, but due to desire for higher creative freedom, flexibility, and often higher profit margins. Big budget, no overhead. And for my tastes, more fun.
Put another way on p163:
So what exactly is your point? To agree with me that I'm not the target market of the Varicam LT? Or just to tell me that I'm feeble and weak for preferring EVA-1 sized cameras?
Bottom line, I'm young and in very good shape, and the Varicam LT is too heavy for me to work with all day solo, in run'n'gun situations, as a Director/DP/Camera Op/etc. handheld. I can affirm I am not a child, but I will schedule an appointment to check for osteoporosis per your recommendation.
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