EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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Serious question for everyone here please.

1/ Do you mind if I place this lengthy thread into the Varicam section?

2/ Do you mind if I change the name to reflect what it actually is? Something like EVA1 announcement (or similar suggestions welcome)?
 
filmguy123 said:
Thanks Mitch, always good to hear from you and thankful to have an active Panasonic rep here! I know you may not be able to answer this question but I'll pose it here anywhere, even if ends up a rhetorical question until complete specs are released. One thing I have a hard time reconciling in light of news that 4K 60p internal will be limited to 8-bit is this comment:



I won't pretend to be an engineer, though I am a bit of a tech-obsessed nerd, so do forgive me if I am speaking over my paygrade. But both the GH5 and EVA-1 have shown the hardware capability to deliver 400mbps throughput in an All-I codec which shows that the data throughput is there for those bitrates. We also know the processing power is there for 4K 60p on a LongGOP format. So the CPU can handle 4K 60p LongGOP encoding, and the data throughput can handle 400mbps.

Based on everything i know regarding the relationship between CPU processing and data throughput, I cannot see any reason why given these specs 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 at a LongGOP 200-400 mbps bitrate is not entirely possible with the given hardware? Limiting it to 8-bit would seem to counter your statement that the camera is not being hobbled in anyway?

Sensor size not withstanding, it would be a major disappoint to see a camera costing nearly 4x as much as the GH5 not offer any edge in codec. It's also disappointing from a pure functionality standpoint as one of the key advantages that defines the EVA-1 is "lightweight, low-cost internal media".

I do not think I would be alone in saying that I would pay extra for a vlog-L style unlock to activate 4K 60p 10b 4:2:2 Internal to SD cards over paying for a bulky external recorder. It's not about the $$ in this case, for many of us it's about the functionality. Adding on a mandatory external recorder for any 4K slow motion modes worth shooting at a professional level negates the entire selling point of a lightweight 2lbs camera. Given how prominent slow motion is in today's work, please, please, please reconsider 4K 60p being limited to 8-bit. Even if I'm talking out of my arse regarding technical capabilities and misunderstanding what is possible, I'm hardpressed to believe that this couldn't be at least managed via a burst mode like the FS700 used to offer. The lack of this is a blackmark on an otherwise (potentially) stellar package.

Regarding the windowed 2K slow motion modes, I hope to see 180fps without crop, but at least 120fps as a minimum. I can understand needing to crop to reach 240fps which is a very impressive framerate, but not at framerates that have become standard even at the lower end.

As a Panasonic product lover and faithful, PLEASE release something that will stand up to what the competition is going to be dropping in the following year. Banking on Dual ISO and Varicam color science won't be enough for most.
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4k 60p 8bit is not hobbling. It is adding a feature beyond just 4k 30p. While it may not be perfect we are just starting to get into the world of 4k 60p cameras. Slow motion all through history has had quality compromises. Sometimes its a windowed sensor, sometimes its lower quality scaling or really low resolution. You now have 4k 60p with the same level of quality as 24p and 30p. Thats pretty darn impressive really. Yeah it can't squeeze out 10bit for the 60p but 8bit isn't always a horrible thing and lots of cameras have shot log to an 8bit format. The GH5 handles V-log in 8bit a heck of a lot better than the GH4 ever did. I am assuming the EVA will support 4k 60p at 10bit via an external recorder which isn't as great as internal but at least it is an option. I just see this as such a non issue really. I guess to me 4k 60p is a massive bonus and you see it as a crippled feature. Glass half full/ half empty thing I guess.
 
Noel Evans said:
Serious question for everyone here please.

1/ Do you mind if I place this lengthy thread into the Varicam section?

2/ Do you mind if I change the name to reflect what it actually is? Something like EVA1 announcement (or similar suggestions welcome)?
Click to expand...

Fine with me, makes sense.
 
Thomas Smet said:
4k 60p 8bit is not hobbling. It is adding a feature beyond just 4k 30p. While it may not be perfect we are just starting to get into the world of 4k 60p cameras. Slow motion all through history has had quality compromises. Sometimes its a windowed sensor, sometimes its lower quality scaling or really low resolution. You now have 4k 60p with the same level of quality as 24p and 30p. Thats pretty darn impressive really. Yeah it can't squeeze out 10bit for the 60p but 8bit isn't always a horrible thing and lots of cameras have shot log to an 8bit format. The GH5 handles V-log in 8bit a heck of a lot better than the GH4 ever did. I am assuming the EVA will support 4k 60p at 10bit via an external recorder which isn't as great as internal but at least it is an option. I just see this as such a non issue really. I guess to me 4k 60p is a massive bonus and you see it as a crippled feature. Glass half full/ half empty thing I guess.
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I'm also not complaining about 4K 60p at 8-bit. I've done good work with 8-bit 4:2:0 since 2010, so it's nice to know it's there if I need it. Generally speaking I acquire in 4K then deliver in HD, so...regardless, I'm looking forward to some 4K overcranking. I'm sure it'll look just fine...just not as good as 10-bit 422, obvi :D But, who's to say they won't have 10-bit 422 overcrank in other resolutions? For all intents and purposes, I'm looking at EVA1 as a way to deliver some very impressive HD content for 90% of the jobs I'll cover with it. Rest of the time, it's good to have that 4K as 4K. I like how aggressive Panasonic is. And it's not stupidly aggressive. Panasonic takes its time with R&D and then pounces. I like it. That gives us well-rounded cameras like EVA1 that are going to last us faithfully for years.
 
The FS7 is 3 years old and shoots internal 4K 60p at 10-bit 4:2:2. Processor tech has improved exponentially since then, at incredibly small size/weight/heat (just look at the A10X fusion).

4K 60p may be a bonus for some, but for others true 4K acquisition will not be part of their workflow without (quality) slow motion acquisition. A huge draw of the EVA-1 is size and weight, and as soon as I have to add an external recorder, that benefit is lost.

You may see it as a pessimistic glass half empty view, but I'm more of a pragmatist: The glass is always full, 50% water and 50% air. 4K 60p 10bit 422 is important to many, as is size & weight equally so. It is what it is. If I'm going to double the camera weight w/an external recorder, added cables and batteries, etc. why not just get an FS7?

My fear for Panny is that it's not enough to match features of cameras launched 3 years ago. It's also not enough to barely usurp them. If the EVA-1 will hold market like the FS7 has for 3+ years they can't simply launch Panasonic's FS7 answer 3 years late.

How long will it be after launch until the FS5 mark II or similar has 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 internal at this size and weight? I'll give it 14 months tops, with a personal bet on within 8 months of EVA-1 launch.

Again, the devil is in the details. I want the EVA-1 to be awesome. Dual ISO and Varicam color science are great but not enough.
 
Retrospective said:
It can't come soon enough! These 8 bit information being thrown out there is giving me the heebie-jeebies lol
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Worry not, I'm sure they're the right 8-bits..hmm I think that phrase is trademarked by Canon, so lets call em "Varicam" bits or v-bits. Varicams are awesome cameras so lets say 1 v-bit is worth 1.5 standard bits, so 8 v-bits is 12 standard bits, but with Panasonic historically being fairly conservative with their stated specs, we'll just round it down to 10 to match the 30p framerate.
 
Dom.G said:
Worry not, I'm sure they're the right 8-bits..hmm I think that phrase is trademarked by Canon, so lets call em "Varicam" bits or v-bits. Varicams are awesome cameras so lets say 1 v-bit is worth 1.5 standard bits, so 8 v-bits is 12 standard bits, but with Panasonic historically being fairly conservative with their stated specs, we'll just round it down to 10 to match the 30p framerate.
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Ha i hope so! ;)

mcgeedigital said:
It isn't information, it is just FUD until the real specs come out.
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Thats exactly it but then again the 2 people they interviewed on Cinema5D were Panasonic reps, you'd think they were given the same info as what Mitch has received.
 
Noel Evans said:
Serious question for everyone here please.

1/ Do you mind if I place this lengthy thread into the Varicam section?

2/ Do you mind if I change the name to reflect what it actually is? Something like EVA1 announcement (or similar suggestions welcome)?
Click to expand...

Please Do!!!

How about "EVA1 Preview and Ongoing Information"?
 
This latest discussion about 10 bit 4k60 has just made me appreciate my GH5 so much more. I realized that I've been wasting so much time scouring the web for more pseudo info about the C200 and EVA1 that I'd forgotten to get out and shoot with it in my free time.

For such a small body, having the image that it has plus IBIS is truly remarkable.

My C100 and GH5 certainly can wait for the EVA2 or C200 Mk ii before buying another new 10 bit camera if this shakes out as 4k60 in 8 bit only.
 
Thomas Smet said:
You can't scale raw. Once you do it is no longer raw because it is processed. If a camera pumps out raw it does so with the full sensor or cropped. No realistic way to scale raw because that completely goes against the nature of what raw is. You can't have a bayer pattern that can be de-bayered if the image is scaled down You would end up with the worlds most messed up color mush and no longer have any form of a bayer pattern left. A bayer pattern depends on having the exact RGB layout and scaling would completely destroy that. It is physically impossible to scale raw and keep it raw.
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So what would you call or classify what Sony is doing with the F55 and their RAW recorders? You can record 4K RAW and 2K RAW.
 
I brought it up earlier with Blackmagic as an example...think the overall confusion comes from with what the camera is actually doing to get the 2K RAW image. BM windows its 4.6K sensor. I don't know what the F55 does.
 
Noel Evans said:
Serious question for everyone here please.

1/ Do you mind if I place this lengthy thread into the Varicam section?

2/ Do you mind if I change the name to reflect what it actually is? Something like EVA1 announcement (or similar suggestions welcome)?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it make more sense moving it into the AF100 forum since it is basically a replacement to that camera? Or better yet, create a new sub forum for it? Panasonic seems to be making a point this camera is not part of the Varicam line. Why confuse people?
 
Sttratos said:
Wouldn't it make more sense moving it into the AF100 forum since it is basically a replacement to that camera? Or better yet, create a new sub forum for it? Panasonic seems to be making a point this camera is not part of the Varicam line. Why confuse people?
Click to expand...

Huh? *THAT* would be confusing. The AF line was a professional m43 camera. This in no way follows the AF line up, and retaining "AF100 successor" is confusing if anything. The only relation it has to that camera is that it is Panasonic's next interchangeable lens camera, which I give you is something, but it'd be better of in a new sub-forum than either the AF100 *or* Varicam forum since it is neither...

NEW FORUM: EVA-1
TITLE: New Panasonic S35 Pro Camera "EVA-1" Previewed
 
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