EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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Mitch, I'm new to the forum but I've been lurking for awhile and think it's awesome that you interface with your consumers like this. One question for you:

Will EVA-1 have punch-in to check focus while recording? This is an essential feature for me and after scrutinizing images of the grip side I don't see where this functionality would go. Especially without a joystick control to move the window around.
 
looks great - i was hoping for a lower price point (if it's really just below €8000 - could also be €6000), but that's justified by it's features. although, in that price ranges it's in direct competition to the fs7, fs7 mark II, c200, and ursa mini pro, so it'll be a tough call, especially with sony and canon being more established in the market. internal 422 10bit will give it the edge over the c200 when it comes to ENG-production - as long as it can power a power-zoom lens and as long as the c200 won't get 422 10 bit with the codec update in q1 2018. the fs7 has a very similar feature set but weighs much more, so that's that.

i'm curious, how the dual iso will fare in real use - sony and canon seem to be able to push usable iso quite high without dual iso - how 240p fhd will look like and of course overall image quality, dynamic range, colors, UI, software, etc. i'm also pretty curious about the EIS - if it works in tandem with motion sensors and takes advantage of the 5.7k sensor then it could work, but if it warps the image like stabilizers in NLEs do, then it doesn't make much sense to me.

one thing that could happen that, similar to the af100, half a year later canon comes out with a c100 markII, c300 markIII, sony with a fs6 and fs8, all of them with slightly better specs for a little more money but both being the more widely adopted systems offering extra something that's soon to be the next standard (s135 sensor, internal raw). like the af100 was too little too early the EVA could be too late (in that price range)

anyway, i'm in the market for a new cam come fall '17, spring 18, so i'll start to save money now and then buy whatever makes the most sense (but with pana having the emotional advantage, as i've been using their cams since the dvx100. plus, i like small cams).

i'm looking forward to the first footage from it.

theaveragedave said:
Will EVA-1 have punch-in to check focus while recording? This is an essential feature for me
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for me too - it'd pretty much defeat the purpose of such a small s35/4k camera if you can't focus on it properly without a third party evf or external monitor.
 
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And they're back....well done Panasonic, some very nice specs on this, sadly I could not hold out and went for the FS5 which is a great camera.

I wonder if Sony will now offer their RAW licence free now?
 
Doctor Wu said:
I second that. I would much prefer built in RAW options like those found in C200 and RED cameras, rather than 3rd party raw recorders that get their signal over an SDI cable as in the Odyssey / Atomos solutions. If you want RAW, clearly the C200 seems like the more attractive solution. The only thing that might change me over to the this EVA panasonic, is if image quality and DR EXCEEDS that of the C200. But the C200 has the same chip as the C300 II, some say the same chip as the C700. That's a tough benchmark to beat. Going to RAW, you get all of that same goodness.
We'll just have to wait and see with testing between the two cameras, which camera's IQ wins out.
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Canon Marketing WINs Again...LEts Note that the C-200 is recording compressed RAW. With rather Dodgy details at the moment. To a single card slot with Rather expensive media. OH and there won't be much NLE support for that new codec (yes it's a bloody codec, RAW isn't compressed and compressed RAW is a codec. R3D redcode RAW is a codec)
I can't wait to read the horror stories of people trying to debayer Canon compressed RAW on their 2015 iMacs with ATI GPUs.
 
spinkscapes said:
There is nothing that this camera has that makes it as appealing as the C200 for my purposes.
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+ 1 , can't really beat DPAF and an INTERNAL 12bit 4k raw acquisition format, from which you can delivery pretty much anything. Early 2018 the C200 will get a broadcast ready 8 bit 422 XF-AVC codec. The Beeb over here and other broadcasters are already using XC10s and XC15s for docu and run n gun stuff, so the lack of 10bit internal does not worry me one bit after considering the facts post-EVA1 presser.

I can't wait to ditch my external recorder. I want my Raw in-camera.

the C200 bashing is completely within the norm of every Canon Cinema Eos announcement. It was the same with the C300 II. Even the original C300 took a while to take off, but thats a difference story was a different time.

C200 announcement - blind rage, followed by sober consideration of the benefits leading to inevitable acceptance that in the real world - specs on paper are one thing, but when you actually get to use Dual Pixel AF and see how insanely usable and good it is, all of a sudden the C200 looks like an amazing kit.

and it is. The EVA 1 has a lot of potential, I really hope it can delivery stellar images, excellent skin tones and most of all - some form of usable AF - as otherwise it would be a waste of an EF mount.
 
@filmguy123Lack of innovative wow factor IE an interchangeable MFT mount. I do agree with Thomas' rationale but I also think Panny would have been super smart to include an swappable MFT mount with this. I don't think the market would have been *that* much of a niche for a couple reasons: an MFT mount with EF speedbooster left in S35 mode opens up some great possibilities. MFT to use hyper lightweight or low key lenses also opens up great options. MFT mount would have made this is a truly cohesive "bridge" camera between GH5 and the LT in a unique way on the market. TBH I didn't think it was likely anyway, and while I get and agree with Thomas' rationale, this really would have been a unique and distinguishing feature.

This is precisely how I feel....if I had to buy new lens mounts for all my lenses...+- some $2500 worth at +- $100 a piece, I'm now looking at a Varicam instead...and the Varicam would only be bought for a very specific purpose, so I don't buy a camera till and if that happens...with the EVA (LOVE the name by the way) I might have simply considered buying in this price range as I love Panasonic cameras and have a lot of lenses based exactly on the ADAPTABILITY of the m4/3 mount...I would also say that with Panasonic/Leica new fast primes, these lenses are highly competitive IQ wise...so yes!...use and buy native lenses indeed...and of course for gimbal work (I don't use them) these ultralight native lenses would compliment the light weight of this camera...so for those not vested in Panasonics M4/3 system, great...for those who are, not so much...I understand that my needs are of course personal and Panasonic's a large corporation...everything else about the EVA looks very impressive...perhaps someone like Hot Rod Camera will manufacture a swappable mount (that LOCKS) and is M4/3...
@ Norbro....lol...you're right!...I was excited about this camera����...and the idea of the M4/3 optional mount was a no brainer for me, but of course my personal fantasy!
 
filmguy123 said:
I've owned only Panasonic cameras but he is right. I don't know anyone else who uses them anymore, other than a few GH owners. This is Sony/BMD territory now, and Panny is an outsider to the last 7 years of mid range shooters. They need to do more than quietly market a camera that competes (strongly, mind you) with a 3 year old FS7.

LCD details, codec specifics, unquantifiable features, color and high ISO, and how far below $8k they come in will all influence this cameras initial splash but more importantly its competive longevity.
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Possibly an outsider in the mid/low end market: maybe.
I've owned a varicam LT for a Year now and I see them everywhere. From commercial to narrative and literally 50% plus of the Netflix shows shot In NYC (basically everything that isn't a Marvel show) is shot on a Panasonic.
Even broadcast sport (PBC boxing)

So maybe Panasonic hasn't been in the low end "Me Too" black-magic camera Market but on the High End they are and have been a fixture.
This EVA as long as it matches the varicam LT, will find it's niche right next to the larger cameras in the same way the ALEXA MINI did.

It's a teaser announcement. They did it with the GH5 and delivered. So everyone needs to bloody well calm down. it's a New sensor the DR and Dual ISO numbers will be out by the summer.

Panasonic Doesn't just make cameras, they are a huge OEM company and Own loads of IP. Even if they just pulled tech from the consumer group (lumix GH series) and a bit form the Pro group (Varicam) they have the resources to deliver an amazing camera. They haven't dropped the ball since they got back into the semiconductor business and are making their own sensors again

https://tpsemico.com/
The Varicam Sensors and allegedly the Sensor in everyone favorite Leica

https://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/Details

(Remember when this leica launched it came with VLog-L...then Leica noticed and changed the name to Leica LOG....but it's somehow identical to the VLog on the GH4 and so are all it's recording formats).

Either way as a Varicam LT owner I have the utmost confidence in Panasonic's ability to deliver on it's sensors. I doubt the dual ISO will be 5000 (actually I'm serious rooting for it to be under 5000iso ...lets be honest I own a $27000 cameras for that and I don't want to see that number in a sub $10k camera, we're all allowed to be petty about one thing and that is Mine)

Cheers
 
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Sttratos said:
I think calling this a Varicam would be a mistake and damage the Varicam brand as a high end brand. It's obvious this is no high end camera. Panasonic is right in not calling it a Varicam.
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Varicam Mini Pro is a perfect name for it, Varicam is no Alexa or Red as far as sales yet so there is nothing to protect there. Would you prefer to protect the Varicam name with it's current performance in sales or sell 1000% more with this camera? By the way the internal 4k should have been announced that it's a 10bit 4:2:2 and the fact that they didn't makes one wonder. At the end the internal 4k 10bit is going to make or break this camera at this price range.
 
Ken1212 said:
Varicam Mini Pro is a perfect name for it, Varicam is no Alexa or Red as far as sales yet so there is nothing to protect there. Would you prefer to protect the Varicam name with it's current performance in sales or sell 1000% more with this camera? By the way the internal 4k should have been announced that it's a 10bit 4:2:2 and the fact that they didn't makes one wonder. At the end the internal 4k 10bit is going to make or break this camera at this price range.
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They did announce that it is internal 10 bit 4:2:2 4k. It's one of the benefits of this camera over the C200. It's one of the few specs they have announced.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Until they make affordable Terabyte CF cards, Raw is impracticable for most shooting. Especially with one CF slot forcing you to stop recording every 15 minutes just to swap cards.
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Why limit yourself to 15 minutes? Can't you buy a 258 gig C-fast card, or A 512 gig?
 
sean007davis said:
Canon Marketing WINs Again...LEts Note that the C-200 is recording compressed RAW. With rather Dodgy details at the moment. To a single card slot with Rather expensive media. OH and there won't be much NLE support for that new codec (yes it's a bloody codec, RAW isn't compressed and compressed RAW is a codec. R3D redcode RAW is a codec)
I can't wait to read the horror stories of people trying to debayer Canon compressed RAW on their 2015 iMacs with ATI GPUs.
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Its already been announced that most all NLE systems are supporting canons camera raw light. Compressed , uncompressed really we're parsing that again? Cfast 2.0 cards, P2 cards, SSd's on and on were all pricey at some point so theres no point harping on cost. Its the price of entry. 15stops DR camera raw light internal is what that cameras about and if you're not onboard fine but to bash it when its a miles down the road past most cameras in that price range is just petty.
 
I see you guys have been busy posting. :)

Reading your posts, hear are my thoughts (if anyone cares, that is) :

The presentation:
I think that the presentation was fine. The only thing Panasonic really should've done is to place an LT and a GH5 on a table and put the EVA1 in the middle. For us that are familiar with the cameras it would give us an instant comparison in size. Numbers are one thing, what you see is another.

The specs:
They look very promising.

The appearance:
It's a camera. It looks like it will do the job well, although I have to agree that it will look more professional without the red thingy. I like the size, very much. The only thing I'd probably prefer is that the XLR-cable didn't protrude the way it does, but maybe that is a trade-off because of the placement of the handgrip. It's nice that the monitor can be folded and that there's a built in microphone.

The EF-mount:
It should be a lockable mount like on the LT. The only reason I think that a m4/3-mount would've been good is that then maybe Fujinon could make their MK-lenses with m4/3-mounts and I think it would be a terrific combination.

The lack of EVF:
I think it's a good choice not to include an EVF. Reading posts about different cameras in the past, people mostly seem to complain about the visual quality. As Mitch said in one of the videos, it's better not to force that on everyone. Those who need it can get a separate EVF. It keeps the price, size, power consumtion and weight down.

The monitor:
There's almost no information about the included monitor except that it uses a proprietary cable. Since that is the case, I would suggest Panasonic to place some small rubber buttons around it with similar functions as on the Varicams. I'm almost 100 % certain people would love that, and make it bright!

The handgrip:
I still can't figure out why video manufacturers aren't copying the functions of the Canon DSLR handgrips, where you can change ISO, WB, shutter speed, zoom in focus, etc. and start/stop REC with your thumb and index finger.

The "lack" of autofocus:
I of course don't know if there's going to be any autofocus, but if Panasonic includes the focus indicator as the one on the Varicam LT, it'll be very nice. Of course, some gimbal work would have use of a good autofocus, especially in situations where you don't have a dedicated focus puller or wireless follow focus. Here the C200 has a clear advantage (as far as we know).

Dual ISO:
Since it's not the same sensor as in the Varicams, nor does it seem to need the same amount of power and cooling, we're only left to speculate (apparently it gives us pleasure to do so). If it performs as well (or better) than the Varicams, it will be fantastic. The dual ISO is not just about getting less noise, it's also about retaining colour information and DR with a higher ISO.

The ND- and IR-filter:
They should've implemented a variable ND-filter, even if it increased the cost. The in camera disabling of the IR-filter is a useful feature, should've been done in the LT too.

Power:
I don't know anything about the batteries, but it's essential to be able to power some accessories (like an EVF) directly from the camera (or D-tap output on the battery). This is, so far, the only thing I'm a bit sceptical about BUT I don't know anything about these batteries so I'll just have to learn more.

The C200 has raw, the FS7 has the same specs and has had for several years, the EVA1 has nothing special:
Well, not necessarily. What I say now has nothing to do with the C200 itself, or the FS7, as they're probably terrific cameras in their own way, but just comparing raw or specs generally doesn't say everything about the image itself. Neither does it say anything about the EVA1, since we don't know anything about the image quality.
I own the FS700 and the Varicam LT. Both can record raw paired with an O7Q. I compared the .DNG-files recorded by the O7Q the other day, and let's say that there's a "slight" difference, in favour of the LT. It's not a fair comparison of course, the FS700 is an old camera these days and was cheap in comparison to the LT to buy (and the FS700 is in many ways still a very good performer paired with an O7Q, considering its age). But, AFAIK the results (raw with O7Q) from the FS5 or the FS7 don't differ much compared to the FS700. I also compared the FS700 raw > 4K prores 422 (in O7Q) and the 4K LT-codec, and the images from the Varicam are the ones that I prefer.

This means that the "regular" specs we get to read about are not the only thing that matters, it's the combination of them and how they're implemented in the camera that creates the results. There is a chance that the EVA1 will make more beautiful images than the FS(x) or C(x)00, and if it does some of us will rate that higher than autofocus, in camera raw or variable ND-filters.

Summary:
Since we don't know anything about the image quality of the EVA1, we can only speculate, but IF it comes near the Varicam LT, it'll be absolutely great, especially in that size.
If it's better than the LT it'll be a killer and I'll be happy for everyone who has it, and a bit bummed since I have the LT. :)

I suggest all of you to read/watch this:
https://agdok.de/de_DE/cameratest
There you can get a glimpse of what the differences are between cameras, even though some specs might be similar. Remember, the Varicam LT "only" records 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 internally, but it looks great.
 
k0bayashi said:
HI Barry,

Appreciate your responses, and your experience and solid reputation in the indistry, I am just speaking as a regular consumer. I am not an industry insider, just a guy who tries to make some money shooting video for people and has a small blog about things related to what I do.

But as someone, who currently owns a GH5, has owned in the past a HVX200, and an AF101 - I'd say the market has shifted 360 degrees since 2010, but for some reason Panasonic are still acting as if nothing has changed. Not talking about their technology - but their marketing efforts and corporate mentality.

The current market WANTS immediacy - we live in the VLOG generation - not V-Log - but in the "THIS IS MY LIFE AND I THINK IT'S SO INTERESTING I HAVE TO BROADCAST EVERY STUPID F*KING Aspect of it" - everything is on tap. This is a particularly vapid and poisonous thing, but that's the reality out there. The masses. Not saying that you'll see a lot of kids out there VLOGGIN on your EVA 1, I am sure there will be some, but it's the unconscious immediacy that we've been conditioned to.

No one really wants to wait too long for anything. A company has a new product - here it is, it will be released in 3 months and it will cost XYZ. That's it. We're not talking about the next generation , ground breaking electric mobility technology here or a new way to travel in space and time! We're talking about a sub-$10K camera that shoots pretty pictures and helps small businesses earn a decent living. That's it, it's simple.

Panasonic , IMHO, are making things more difficult for themselves then they ought to be by digging a hole called "massive expectations" by announcing stuff way too early....

In the real world out there - at least my world - where I do small corporate gigs I make the decisions, but when I do things for broadcast or where I am simply a hired hand - producers know 2-3 things - FS7, C300 and 5D - they dont even know the difference between 5D 3 , 2 or even 4. They just know that it makes pretty pictures. Now they are learning the A7s too - but that's the point - Panasonic isn't on the table. It never was in my experience.

Panasonic, in my opinion, is new to this game - they are facing very strong competition in brand recognition among other things - but mostly the PANASONIC badge just dont hold much water.

Here in the UK , I know exactly 1 Varicam LT owner, but on the other hand the ALEXA Mini owner ops and FS7 owner ops are the majority. I have never seen a DVX200 on a job, a few GH4's on a few very low paying jobs, and that's it. Everything is a C300, FS7 and REDs. The XF305 kicks a lot of ass too...


Like I said in previous posts, I am a fan of Panasonic - I really like with they are doing with their new cameras - thats why I bought a GH5. But the EVA 1 - even though it has a lot of potential, and I am sure it will be capable of making pretty pictures (in time), it will take a massive marketing effort to break the mold.

And so far, I am not convinced by any of the marketing materials or approach.

Hiring Mitch to market the camera and other Cinema related products in your CInema line is the best thing Panasonic could have done - that man is a treasure, but I hope that Panasonic really change they way they think about approaching their potential customers for this camera. As stubborn as Canon and Sony are - they get it ....
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It's all a matter of perspective.

Anyone ever glance at the video game industry/market. Announcements about consoles made months and months(sometimes years) in advance of them actually dropping on store shelves.

Panasonic new to the Game? Here in the US, Panasonic has pretty much been IT in the broadcast ENG world for over the last decade. Tape VariCams, HDX-900's and P2 Vari's were all you saw. For my world, Sony was irrelevant camera wise from my last Betacam until my F55 a few years ago.

Now, I will say that where the tape and P2 Vari's ruled supreme, NO ONE is asking for a V35 or LT. Or possibly even know they exist. I was told by another shooter that one of our clients that has been a "Panasonic Shop" for field acquisition since HD can't even handle the new VariCam codecs.

I'm not sure of the exact mechanism that gets cameras onto the radar and into the minds of producers today. Is it that someone buys one and they do something the producer likes with it and all of a sudden that's the IT camera and everything has to be done with it? Or is it some nerdy/techy producer types that see a camera and specs and think it's sexy and cool? I had a rep at the beginning of the year ask me what it would take for me to buy an LT and I told them simply, "Client Demand".
 
Mitch Gross said:
Feel free to ask me questions here but please understand two things: 1, I can't or won't answer questions in some areas or at least not yet, and 2, I'm at the show all day tomorrow plus I have a full day of meetings on Sunday followed by a packed week. So I'll do my best to keep up, but it's kinda exhausting and I got way too much California sun today.
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Hi Mitch,

It's refreshing having you coming here and continue communicating with the community and being a voice for us as Jan Crittenden used to do. A few questions if you can currently answer:

Will it be a locking EF mount?

If Varicam colorimetry, why not the Varicam label?

Is 2K slow motion cropped?

is LCD viewable outdoors?

Will it be bundled with Barry Green's AU-EVA1 book? ;)
 
We have two kinds of intelligence, one what we read and see, the other a intuitive intelligence. My intuitive intelligence is telling me these early presentations are more of a fishing expedition on behalf of Pany, Sony and Canon. Two cameras have been announced that don't exist yet. And Canon announced a new codec for the C200 the they are releasing next year. Things are getting very competive and every little thing matters. Good strateegery to scope out responses by potential customers.

Canon claims to listen to its customers, no one asked for Raw-light, that was a total surprise and a good surprise at that. Everyone wanted 4K and 10 bit 422. You could say Canon kinda delivers on that, but storage is expensive....... the old dictum applies here -- be careful what you wish for.

I'm kind a hoping that when it's all over and done with, Canon will see the writing on the wall and give us 10 bit 422 in the future update next year. If they did that then it would blow away all the competition including the FS7. According to some reports instead of doing that they are busy for the next 8 months destroying eveidence.

I question a company that does this. I feel like I'm being jerked around, after swearing aligence.

The C300 MKII will be made irrelevant as well as the FS7, by simply adding 10 bit 422. Certainly their sales of the C200 would off set any loss on the C300 MKII which will be absolute soon enough anyway, unless they have some future firmware upgrades coming down the line, like Raw-light.

Personally I think internal Raw-light is now what 4K was 5 years ago. In a year or two, those who complained about the storage of raw-light will be singing it praises. 4K raw-light is the future, and the C200 is more future proof than the EVA1 or the FS7.
 
Not familiar with canon's raw light, but how will it stack up handling 15 stops DR? People are already complaining that 12bit isn't enough for the 14 stops on the FS7...
 
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