Panasonic announces UX180 and UX90 pricing & availability

I see that it isn't the low light that produce this small noise. Also in daylight the camera has a little noise. The image isn't as clear as I expect to be with 1' sensor :(

I am wondering if this is just codec artifacts and not noise. But at the end the image isn’t clear if you nee to apply a digital zoom on editing.

Because I didn’t see anywhere Sony’s Z150 recorded videos/files (only from youtube), is that we have to expect from 1’ sensor cameras or Z150 doesn’t have this small noise?

P.S. Thank you again dnavas
 
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dnavas said:
quick grabs of outdoor shots before heading south, demonstrating how much work I have to do in the yard, and also why I'm not leaving home without a tripod :)
Camera was in all auto, though I had to muck about with ND filter settings, given the brightness outdoors.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uYsNiRVpedY3dWbnhWUDlBck0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uYsNiRVpedRlJZNkV0QlVnN3c
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uYsNiRVpedam1uV3pRU3l6bjg

The grass looked fine, the wheelbarrow in the third not so much. I'm wondering to what extent I'm now just looking for problems. ;/ That said, the results look very different from the UX90 vids, so I'd be extremely interested to see some UX180 UHD60p shots.
Click to expand...

The AF tracked the wireframe in front of the wheelbarrow, and that is why the wheelbarrow appears to be out of focus. Actually pretty impressive AF on small foreground target.
 
philiplipetz said:
The AF tracked the wireframe in front of the wheelbarrow, and that is why the wheelbarrow appears to be out of focus. Actually pretty impressive AF on small foreground target.
Click to expand...

Yes -- I presume that there is more contrast on those edges. I was actually referring to the noise prior to switching the ND filter. There is a LOT of detail at the expense of NR, seems like? In comparison to my prior camera that's true, anyway.
 
The 1" sensor has a much shallow depth of field than your TM700 that is only 1/4". This is clear in that the barrow is out of focus and the wire frame just in front is in focus. I expect your TM700 would have everything in focus as would most 1/3" sensors. If you want everything in focus you will need to close down the iris to say F8 or so and compensate with gain if needed. Just an example you would need to adjust as needed and would depend on zoom too .
 
Yes, there are many things I'm going to have to keep in mind that I didn't have to before, and it's true I haven't developed those habits. At the time, though, I was testing a couple of things -- fringing (would have been better to test against clouds, but :shrug: ) and looking at noise in well-lit scenery. Closing the iris was the last thing on my mind (and focus wasn't top of mind either). One of the things I noticed last night was that, even the well-lit areas sparkled, and I was concerned what I'd see in daylight. One of those differences from the TM700 I'm noticing is that this camera seems to prefer to retain detail at the expense of visible noise. Assuming that this is normal (and some of the videos I've seen of the UX90 make me wonder about that), I think I approve of the tradeoff. I can always run noise reduction in post, but I can't put back detail where there is none. Running the same test on the TM700 last night was ... amusing -- a hot mess at lower resolution *and* a loss of detail on top of that!
 
Thanks for sharing footage!

So do we know if the old CGA D54 Panasonic batteries are ok to use with the UX-180 and HC-X1?

So it sounds like the UX180 has a lot more image adjustments than the X1, correct? Easier to match other cameras then I guess...
 
dnavas said:
Yes, there are many things I'm going to have to keep in mind that I didn't have to before, and it's true I haven't developed those habits. At the time, though, I was testing a couple of things -- fringing (would have been better to test against clouds, but :shrug: ) and looking at noise in well-lit scenery. Closing the iris was the last thing on my mind (and focus wasn't top of mind either). One of the things I noticed last night was that, even the well-lit areas sparkled, and I was concerned what I'd see in daylight. One of those differences from the TM700 I'm noticing is that this camera seems to prefer to retain detail at the expense of visible noise. Assuming that this is normal (and some of the videos I've seen of the UX90 make me wonder about that), I think I approve of the tradeoff. I can always run noise reduction in post, but I can't put back detail where there is none. Running the same test on the TM700 last night was ... amusing -- a hot mess at lower resolution *and* a loss of detail on top of that!
Click to expand...

While you get used the camera you may want to try running the way I run my small Sony's that do not have full manual control( no manual control of gain) I set shutter fixed at 1/60, set a gain limit ( usually 18db or 21 db ) set iris and let the camera control gain. It is then possible to set the iris above the ramp iris so that one can zoom without ramping. So set iris above f4.5 on the HC-X1. The camera is now in auto exposure controlled by the gain and ND. I usually also set AE shift a little negative too.
 
firehawk said:
Thanks for sharing footage!

So do we know if the old CGA D54 Panasonic batteries are ok to use with the UX-180 and HC-X1?

So it sounds like the UX180 has a lot more image adjustments than the X1, correct? Easier to match other cameras then I guess...
Click to expand...

From what I can get from the manuals they are identical other than the SDI and timecode interfaces. This of course means the firmware is different so not interchangeable. The picture adjustments I assume will be identical though. We will have to see when someone has both to compare.
 
Ron Evans said:
While you get used the camera you may want to try running the way I run my small Sony's that do not have full manual control( no manual control of gain) I set shutter fixed at 1/60, set a gain limit ( usually 18db or 21 db ) set iris and let the camera control gain. It is then possible to set the iris above the ramp iris so that one can zoom without ramping. So set iris above f4.5 on the HC-X1. The camera is now in auto exposure controlled by the gain and ND. I usually also set AE shift a little negative too.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I'm going to have to put my big-boy pants on. I agree that I'd like to keep the iris over 4 -- it looks like the ramp from 2.8 to 4.5 spans about the first 7x (ie: the useful bits :)), and the change in exposure is quite distracting. But as for letting the camera auto-expose....
Example quartet venue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7KrOR6Mmpw
the light just streams in behind these guys -- beautiful south-facing bay window. This was from a master class that went on for about an hour, and in that time I had to adjust as the sun moved -- even the color balance changed on me :( So I'm going to have to understand all of those knee settings really, really well. It's enough to make me wonder if getting the UX180 just so I can take advantage of Barry's scene files would be a worthwhile trade for me.

And then we have the sports section -- pools with giant glass on one side, and the stands on the other -- shooting into the light as well, with the added enjoyment of water., and sometimes warehouse overhead lighting just to keep things entertaining. I'd like to keep the shutter over 250 or even at 500 for the diving, but we'll have to see what's possible (for the violin playing, even 30fps would be okay -- I prefer 60, but 30 works in a pinch).

Anyway, thus the crash course over this coming week. All tips welcome!
 
dnavas said:
There is a LOT of detail at the expense of NR, seems like? In comparison to my prior camera that's true, anyway.
Click to expand...
That's adjustable. You can select how much noise reduction you want. More noise reduction = less noise and less fine detail; less noise reduction = more fine detail but also (obviously) more noise.
 
firehawk said:
So do we know if the old CGA D54 Panasonic batteries are ok to use with the UX-180 and HC-X1?
Click to expand...
They're approved for the UX-180. I would assume that they would also be approved for the X1.

So it sounds like the UX180 has a lot more image adjustments than the X1, correct?
Click to expand...
I haven't seen the instructions for the X1 so I don't know. The UX180 has more adjustments than the UX90, yes, but I don't know how it compares to the X1. The link earlier in the thread to X1 instructions doesn't work.
 
Yeah, that first link just doesn't work, but going to the popup and putting in HCX1E worked fine.

After reviewing the list of menu items and comparing them to a UX180, it does appear that they are basically the same camera with the only notable differences being the timecode and SDI ports. Other than that, it appears that everything that's in the UX180 is also in the HC-X1, and spot-checking the ranges of options it seems like they're implemented the same. I'm not going to take the time to verify every function, I'm just saying that superficially it does appear that they're probably running the same firmware and the same hardware other than the ports as mentioned before. Who knows, there may be differences in implementation somewhere, but it doesn't seem like it, it seems like it's what everyone thought it was, the same camera just missing the SDI and timecode ports.
 
First outing with the UX180. I'm a complete novice at pro camera use having just got this to replace a very old HC-X900...but having read the DVX200 e-book it gave me a head start and my first results aren't too bad. I'm certainly very happy with this camcorder already. Any observations would be more than welcome.

 
dnavas said:
quick grabs of outdoor shots before heading south, demonstrating how much work I have to do in the yard, and also why I'm not leaving home without a tripod :)
Camera was in all auto, though I had to muck about with ND filter settings, given the brightness outdoors.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uYsNiRVpedY3dWbnhWUDlBck0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uYsNiRVpedRlJZNkV0QlVnN3c
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5uYsNiRVpedam1uV3pRU3l6bjg

The grass looked fine, the wheelbarrow in the third not so much. I'm wondering to what extent I'm now just looking for problems. ;/ That said, the results look very different from the UX90 vids, so I'd be extremely interested to see some UX180 UHD60p shots.
Click to expand...


@dnavas, I am thinking about the small noise that UX180 produce even in daylight. UX180 have a function that reduce the noise (NR CONTROL on Page 146). Do you play with it?

Can you make some daylight test to see if this small noise reduced and to see how much detail we will lose (maybe you can check all possible values from -7 to +7 while recording something static)?
 
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