Panasonic 4K GH4 possibly coming next Spring...

Hehe, I came here to post that brochure too :)

Looking at the video specs, it does 4K at 30p, 1080p60 with 4pixel mixture, and 720p60 with 9pixel mixture... all of which point to the following: in video mode, it only uses a central crop of 3840x2160, which means it goes from a 2.04x crop to a 2.47x crop. If that's so, then even with a speedbooster it is still 1.75x, so, smaller than APS-C, and much smaller than S35.
No mention of DR, but it seems it will be a low-light monster, as they advertise it as "lowest noise sensor in the market", plus it seems to do full readout and downsampling for video, plus that extra stop from the speedbooster.
 
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That is exciting indeed. I'm really curious to see what Panasonic have up their sleeve here, as well as on the new Varicam. The AF100 is such a great camera to work with, I can't wait to work with a proper follow-up for it.
 
Samuel H said:
Looking at the video specs, it does 4K at 30p, 1080p60 with 4pixel mixture, and 720p60 with 9pixel mixture... all of which point to the following: in video mode, it only uses a central crop of 3840x2160, which means it goes from a 2.04x crop to a 2.47x crop. If that's so, then even with a speedbooster it is still 1.75x, so, smaller than APS-C, and much smaller than S35.
No mention of DR, but it seems it will be a low-light monster, as they advertise it as "lowest noise sensor in the market", plus it seems to do full readout and downsampling for video, plus that extra stop from the speedbooster.
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I red the link TheDingo posted to EosHD. Andrew Reid wrote there, that the GX7's sensor has very similar specs compared to the rumored GH4 sensor, starting with the same pixel count of 16MP: "We know the GX7's sensor is... ...manufactured by Panasonic. Wen know also that it does a 4x4 pixel mix in 1080p mode (as per the PDF specs for the 4K sensor) instead of the usual line skipping or binning of a typical Sony sensor."

We also know, the video mode of the GX7 isn't a crop mode. While the maths add up to a sensor crop, there seem to exist other possibilities.

He also writes that the (GX7's) sensor has over 12 stops of dynamic range, which isn't that bad.
 
"4K video 24/25/30fps
16mp sensor with full pixel readout
Rumoured 4K codec is 10bit 4:2:2 in MP4 container, at 200Mbit/s
Space saving 100Mbit IPB codec options
4x 3G-HD-SDI and 2x XLR breakout box
OLED monitor, 1 million dot"

...All in an AF100-styled body for $3,000? Assuming a built-in ND filter and access to (relatively) cheap memory cards for storage, this is virtually a must buy.


And Reid's quite right - it'd put Panny right back to the front of the line for indie shooters if all the above is true.
 
jdv said:
...All in an AF100-styled body for $3,000? Assuming a built-in ND filter and access to (relatively) cheap memory cards for storage, this is virtually a must buy.
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I'm not sure why you say all in an AF100 body.
I'm pretty sure Panasonic is focused on the hybrid market with this and more so a dedicated video DSLR or as Kholi mentioned - the features that were going to be on the GH3 but were left out.
Also all the language so far says that it's not to replace the GH3, a point they wouldn't need to make if it weren't a new DSLR form factor.
This isn't the next level AF it's the kind of next level camera that Canon should have delivered on the heels of the 5D...at least 4 or 5 years later.

They abandoned that market to create a new C camera market and Pany is really smart to take it away from them.
Canon is into releasing minor tweaks to their more expensive cameras to keep people who invested heavily into them onboard.
Sony and Panasonic are making bold and innovative moves that make Canon look old and unimaginative (unfortunately because I love their glass and IQ).
 
I agree, Canon can be frustrating at times. I think it is a shame that Panasonic is holding onto the M4/3rd's sensor size. Yes it can be used very well but in the end it turns into another choice to build equipment setups around. I am probably not alone in thinking that I am tired of buying equipment. The more standardized some aspects of this space get (sensor size, lenses), the more we as buyers can commit to a system.
 
jimagine said:
I'm not sure why you say all in an AF100 body.
I'm pretty sure Panasonic is focused on the hybrid market with this and more so a dedicated video DSLR or as Kholi mentioned - the features that were going to be on the GH3 but were left out.
Also all the language so far says that it's not to replace the GH3, a point they wouldn't need to make if it weren't a new DSLR form factor.
This isn't the next level AF it's the kind of next level camera that Canon should have delivered on the heels of the 5D...at least 4 or 5 years later.

They abandoned that market to create a new C camera market and Pany is really smart to take it away from them.
Canon is into releasing minor tweaks to their more expensive cameras to keep people who invested heavily into them onboard.
Sony and Panasonic are making bold and innovative moves that make Canon look old and unimaginative (unfortunately because I love their glass and IQ).
Click to expand...

This is more in line with what I knew of this camera, and the V2 of this camera... this camera being the rumored 4K camera.

It was not in an AF100 style body, but perhaps that changed. It was in a larger GH3 ish body, more like the size of the MKII, and did have an HD-SDI module along with an XLR module.

As far as Panasonic Consumer and Broadcast goes, the consumer side went through reorganization about two years ago and someone else is leading that parade. That might explain why a lot of features that I had been told about did not make it into the GH3, and likely held over to the next iteration.

You can look at the marketing for this sensor, it's very forwardly implicating a push for Still and Video Hybridism in the way that the GH1 was when it first dropped. Remember the differences in the Canon and GH1? The latter seemed FAR more in-tune with the idea of a video camera, and from everything I've seen/heard, the rumored 4K is the GH3 that most people wanted, minus 60P.

Can't have it all. =P
 
joe 1008 said:
We also know, the video mode of the GX7 isn't a crop mode. While the maths add up to a sensor crop, there seem to exist other possibilities.
Click to expand...

Any info from panasonic calling its GX7 "4pixel mixing" or anything similar? Because if I'm having to choose between math and a wild guess, I'm going with math, at least provisionally :)

Pixel count and sensor size match perfectly, that's true. But that doesn't mean it hast to be exactly the same sensor. We'll see.
(for example, it could have the same stuff in the optical side but a wider communication side, to allow for 4K video, and this could change how the sensor actually works)


edit:
lo and behold, here's the "4pixel mixing" reference for the GX7... and it's not a crop but not what you would expect from such expression either:
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/7051/panasonic-gx7-aka-gx2-with-ibis-topic/p5
I take back anything I said about it before: I think the spec sheet doesn't mean much until we get more details and, above all, see some footage.
 
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I just wrote recently about having three camera systems going, all with different glass.
I agree with you completely, almost, regarding standardization.
What I've found through this evolution is that I have two strong needs/biases: one for the full frame aesthetic another for the uniquely small form factor of MFT (a recent experience).
FF offers something MFT never will and vice versa.

I just recently blew up a couple of 5Ds and now have to face either getting another (which I won't because I hate how limited it is as a production tool in 2013.)
Or I have to commit to a new Sony FF (yet new lenses...or an adaptor) which I won't either based on outrageous moire I've seen on the A7r.

One way or the other, I get the sense I'll be using a combination of FF and MFT for a long time going forward.
But for the life of me, I'll never get why Canon watched as everyone else added the features onto their new DSLRs that Canon knew their extensive 5D customer base wanted.
We were very clear and vocal and direct about it.
Sony and Panasonic heard us but somehow Canon wasn't interested.
It made me and a lot of other people I know stop buying their systems and move to Pany and Sony the past couple of years, didn't want to, but I wasn't going to support their unresponsiveness any longer.
 
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Samuel H said:
Any info from panasonic calling its GX7 "4pixel mixing" or anything similar? Because if I'm having to choose between math and a wild guess, I'm going with math, at least provisionally :)

Pixel count and sensor size match perfectly, that's true. But that doesn't mean it hast to be exactly the same sensor. We'll see.
(for example, it could have the same stuff in the optical side but a wider communication side, to allow for 4K video, and this could change how the sensor actually works)


edit:
lo and behold, here's the "4pixel mixing" reference for the GX7... and it's not a crop but not what you would expect from such expression either:
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/7051/panasonic-gx7-aka-gx2-with-ibis-topic/p5
I take back anything I said about it before: I think the spec sheet doesn't mean much until we get more details and, above all, see some footage.
Click to expand...

=]
 
@jimagine:
because they're greedy and they thought you'd pay >$10K for a C300

I switched from Canon to Sony 18 months ago, and I've been very happy about that switch. Is the moire in the A7r that bad? I thought it was the A7 which had the moire.
Also, my kit would fit those needs you detailed with just one set of lenses and in a very small packet: NEX-5N with speedbooster, vintage leitz glass for the leica-R mount. It's small, and it gives me the FF aesthetic. With awesome glass... that may not be fast enough for someone craving "the ff aesthetic".


@kholi:
yes, I know... go figure...
 
FF isn't so much a craving Samuel as a creative look that I like with certain productions and that only FF gives.

And actually they wanted $13k from us for the C300.
They would have gotten about that from me for the pair of C100s we would have bought had they not stuck a tinker toy VF on it and a processor too old to handle even 60p.
 
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jimagine said:
I'm not sure why you say all in an AF100 body.
I'm pretty sure Panasonic is focused on the hybrid market with this and more so a dedicated video DSLR or as Kholi mentioned - the features that were going to be on the GH3 but were left out.
Click to expand...

Well, if it has it has 2 XLR inputs, a S35 sized sensor (if it is that size), and built-in ND filter, it sure isn't going to fit into a GH3 body. It will be interesting if Panny sticks with the MFT format.

Something like the Black Magic cameras? That would be shocking.

The next realistic size up is something like a C100/300, but I'd be surprised if this camera (if true) looks like that. Panny kinda famous for not looking like Sony/Canon/Nikon cams.

Modular? Maybe. But good Lord, if please don't look anything like the FS700 - I loves me some Sony, but that camera's form factor is an absolute disaster. Something like RED? If it is modular, that's prolly the best bet - but again, Panasonic tends to blaze trails, or at the very least not copy.

So that leaves the AF100 shape. I don't know, maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part - I hate the modular concept and I really like the AF100's form factor. It just makes sense. I want my camera to a) look like a camera, and b) work out of the box without me having to be some half-assed camera Dr. Frankenstein.
 
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jdv said:
Well, if it has it has 2 XLR inputs, a S35 sized sensor (if it is that size), and built-in ND filter, it sure isn't going to fit into a GH3 body. It will be interesting if Panny sticks with the MFT format.
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The rumored specs have been MFT in a slightly larger than GH3 body. No word on ND filters that I've seen (though I pray it has them). The XLR inputs and SDI outputs are part of a box that attaches underneath it that is to be sold seperately.
 
philiplipetz said:
Any word on if it will have ETC mode?
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For 4k? Not likely. In order to have ETC you have to have a sensor larger than the recording format. In order to have ETC for 4k recording you would need a 8k or larger sensor. Now if you are referring to 2k or 1080p recording than it could but no definite word. Of course it would be easy to take your 4k recording and do the exact same thing in post.
 
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