Jaime Valles
Veteran
Agreed. I also hope it uses the same batteries as the GH3!
Panasonic 4K GH4 possibly coming next Spring...
- Thread starter Nicholas Natteau
- Start date
Thomas Smet
Veteran
m4/3 lenses are already capable of resolving 4k detail because they are designed to shoot stills that are higher than 4k. All m4/3 cameras are already 4k cameras. They just can't record video at 4k. The sensor and lenses have always been able to resolve 4k of detail. If they were not then stills would be really bad on m4/3 and that is not true at all.
The GH4k is basically the same m4/3 camera but it can readout the entire sensor (well a UHD portion of it) at a constant 30fps and record 4k of video instead of having to bin it down to HD. That is honestly the only difference. Same lenses, same 16MP sensor sizes, same crop factor, same accessories, same low light performance (albeit more noticeable noise at higher ISOs when compared to HD video), same style of focus and image controls and the same overall method of shooting video. The only difference is now 4k isn't limited to just shooting stills. That and the rumored XLR and HD-SDI adpapter and new codec option to handle the 4k recording.
gkantziper
Esteemed Member
However this pans out (pun intended), the new 4K device will not be positioned price-wise to steal market share from some other device higher up in Panasonic's lineup. That wouldn't make good business sense would it? The internal codec will only be adequate requiring an external recording device just like the audio, outputs, etc.... You'll end up with what some call a "Frankenstein rig" to make it compete with more expensive cameras and most don't want to work that way. "Frankenstein rigs" are simply ridiculous for the way most professionals work. I'm not saying the new camera won't be a viable camera capable of higher video resolution than the previous model, but how important is higher resolution when it will moire or have some other issues compared to a 3+ year old device like the trusty, old AF100! Also, how many of us need to deliver at over 1080 resolutions? Resolution doesn't necessarily make your footage look better. Dynamic range is way more important in most circumstances than resolution. The only benefit I see for my situation is a cheap way to shoot a talking head and reframe tighter in post and STILL deliver 1080!
stoneinapond
Veteran
Wow, so many assumptions about something that hasn't even been released yet. That's like saying that the Canon 1D shouldn't exist because it does 4k video and the C100 and 300 don't.
It's called segmentation and works quite well. Professionals who need a "professional" style body aren't going to purchase this over the company's 4k Varicam. Two diffeent products for two different applications.
gkantziper
Esteemed Member
I never said it shouldn't exist. In fact I said, "I'm not saying the new camera won't be a viable camera...". I just merely put it all in perspective and then went on to say how it may benefit me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is called conjecture which isn't exactly the same as assumption? I guess what I'm saying is what you said about my comment wasn't very nice. This is a forum, not your blog. Oh, sorry, that wasn't very nice, just my attempt at humor, ha!
John Caballero
Veteran
Blah, blah, blah.
Thank you, Thomas, for bringing some needed perspective and grounding to this discussion. The only thing that I would add would be that instead of using the GH3 sensor (supposedly made by Sony), it will probably use the improved Panasonic sensor in the GX7/GM1, if not, perhaps, the new 4k MFT "maicovicon" sensor that Panasonic announced about two months ago (http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/ds8/c3/IS00006AE.pdf).
Actually, looking at that spec sheet again, I'm starting to wonder if folks should start lowering their expectations for 10 bit video. If that's really the sensor they will be using, the specs say full scan at 10bit only up to 22.5 fps. That would mean NO 10 bit 4k video either internally or to an external recorder, simply because the sensor is not capable of doing it. MAYBE it can do 10 bit at 1080p, but I would not hold my breath for it.
So my calculated GUESSES for this camera would be a video-optimized version of a GH (probably not labelled as a GH model - maybe a "GHX" at least), with pretty much the same things that a GH3 has, with the addition of a new 200mbps codec for less compression, focus peaking, and maybe they'll throw us a few bones with zebras, built-in ND, and an XLR adapter of some kind. After all, the Sony RX10, which some people felt was aimed at the GH line, has both the NDs and the available XLR adapter (not sure about zebras). Beyond that, the only "stretch goal" that I would hope Panasonic would go for would be IBIS in video modes, since the GX7 has it, but only for stills, and even their top of the line consumer camcorders have 5-axis hybrid IS. Also, if they did a better codec, ND, zebras, focus peaking, and XLR adapter, they would effectively be able to imply that it was a 4k competitor to the Canon C100/C300.
Oh, and by the way, I'm starting to feel a little like Barry Green does - that these rumors are getting out of control. This newest blast, from Engadget, is just based on some random blogger's conversation with some random, unnamed Panasonic rep. For one, the February announcement seems unlikely to me, unless they decide to do it at the CP+ show in Japan (http://www.cpplus.jp/en/), which seems weird. Announcing at NAB (April) or Photokina (September) would seem to make more sense.
Last edited:
All the indications are that any new camera we may be looking towards will come straight out of the GH. stable - so is likely to be first and foremost optimised towards taking still photographs. Yes, such as the GH3 give video which is remarkable considering that fact, let alone the price, and any eventual successor may be expected to be better still - but it's first and foremost a still camera.
And with that in mind, beware how much you read into the sensor specs, how much you extrapolate camera performance (especially for video) from sensor specification. (Always assuming this heavily rumoured new product uses this chip - though that does seem a reasonable guess.) I suspect what you refer to may relate to performance for stills images, and that's true of everything given that doesn't specifically state "video" or "movie". It was discussed before, but I'd still like a definitive answer to what the sheet means with :
To me, that hints strongly that those modes are derived from a 3840x2160 array, forming a signal pixel from either a 2x2 block (for 1080) or a 3x3 block (for 720). That should give high quality easily - but will mean an element of cropping.
If anyone says, "Panasonic will bring out a GH3 succesor in the next year or two" they have a strong chance of being right without any inside knowledge whatsoever - simply because manufacturers tend to bring out new stuff every year or two. So it's highly likely we will indeed see something soon, certain things can be taken a good guess at due simply to market trends, but the trick is knowing where common sense ends and wishful thinking has taken over. I'd say the rumours started off out of control!
And I think it's highly likely that as this is supposed to be coming from Panasonics "still camera" division - not the "video" - it's unlikely to be heavily featured at NAB. As far as Panasonic and NAB are concerned, I think progress on the 4K Varicam is likely to be the main interest there.
Potentially moire free 10-bit 1080p would be nice, but 8-bit 4k would be a bit of a let down in a lot of ways, though a 1DC does record 8-bit 4:2:2 and this is thousands of dollars cheaper.
Isn't Sony supposed to come out with an A-mount 4k 'DSLR' soon, too? Its been said that it will be announced for February, just like this camera. 4k video out of an APS-C sensor would be nice, but if it's 8-bit again then we might have to wait even longer, but it's easy to be really unsatisfied 4k video itself is amazing in the first palce. NAB is going to be quite a show this year, and hopefully there'll be great new HD/2k stuff as well as the inevitable 4k.
Last edited:
I agree that it is likely to still be a hybrid camera, but nothing prevents them from focusing on improving video features this time around (like the items I mentioned in my previous post).
True, no one knows if they will actually use this chip. It just seems reasonable because they just announced it two months ago. I also don't understand all the engineering details of sensor chips in any kind of depth, so could be reading the spec sheet the wrong way.
Agreed, I just think that February doesn't make sense because it is so soon, goes against previous information, and I don't know of any major shows (I don't know how big CP+ is) for them to make the announcement around then.
I'm curious what makes you think it's highly likely to be coming from the still camera division and not the video division? The physical format? The CES mock-up? Thanks.
...But if this new GH 4K camera is not replacing the GH3, then what the heck is it going to offer from a still photo perspective to justify the $2,000 price tag ?
At $2K it is butting heads directly with many of the lower end Full Frame still cameras, which I think will be an impossible battle for a m43 still photo camera to win.
This is why I am wondering about the video performance?
If all this new GH 4K camera offers is a GH3 version of 4K ( with all of the current flaws of the GH3 ), then I think it's going to be D.O.A. ( especially with GH3s selling for under $1K )
Jaime Valles
Veteran
I feel exactly the opposite. I would LOVE a GH3 that can shoot 4K, and would happily pay $2000 for it. But I really hope they add peaking.
I would be happy to pay $2K for a GH3 that can shoot 2K video that is moire-free with a DR of 12+ stops.
Erik Naso
Veteran
Go Panasonic! They have been asleep at the wheel in new camera releases so I'm glad to see a disrupter product release. I cant wait to see what they have going with the new GH 4K camera. Welcome back Panasonic! I think NAB will be very interesting this year. Cant wait to go. If they have a 4K MFT sensor you can bet it wont only be in one camera. Speculation is fun but think more about what the big picture is.
Last edited:
i predict a big load of BULLSHlT on this one
If they cant put out a working prototype today what makes you think they can have production next month?
Who do you think they are? Blackmagic design? ;-)
Remember panasonic broadcast (consumer & pro video) is different from Lumix division (still & p/s)
There will be an announcement by panasonic broadcast on april but it wont be available until end of the year.
Next gh will be announced sept by panasonic lumix and wont be available worldwide till next year. Count on that!
If they cant put out a working prototype today what makes you think they can have production next month?
Who do you think they are? Blackmagic design? ;-)
Remember panasonic broadcast (consumer & pro video) is different from Lumix division (still & p/s)
There will be an announcement by panasonic broadcast on april but it wont be available until end of the year.
Next gh will be announced sept by panasonic lumix and wont be available worldwide till next year. Count on that!
Well, to be fair, Engadget didn't say on sale in February, just announcement in February. However, the reason I came here tonight is because I had a thought about this similar to yours: this whole kerfuffle could just be about the actual, regularly planned next model in the GH line, and have nothing to do with any special "professional" video model. The timing would be just right:
GH1: announced March 2009, released in US June 2009, priced ~ $1500 (kit w/ 14/140 lens)
GH2: announced September 2010, released in US December 2010, priced ~ $1500 (kit w/ 14/140 lens) or ~ $900 (body only)
GH3: announced September 2012, released in US December 2012, priced ~ $1300 (body only)
It would make sense for them to set this on a regular release schedule every two years, and make an announcement coinciding with or at the biennial Photokina show, the largest photographic trade show in the world. Photokina is scheduled for September 16-21, 2014. Hmmm...
dustylense
Veteran
He'll just have to change his pants. For the third time that day.
True North
Well-known member
I was thinking the same thing. There isn't a soul alive who is talking about using this camera and they would most definitely have a working version somewhere if the release date was for February!
If it was released in February I would more than likely buy it based on some of the features discussed
Last edited:
pulpfiction007
Veteran
From what I've heard, Panasonic is letting the GHx series be their entry into large sensor digital cinema market. They do have plans to develop that line into something that will be very enticing to the professional cinema market, and the things that they're working on with it are really quite exciting.
Cinematographer | Director | Producer
Twitter: @BrianCWeed
Website: http://briancweed.com
The copied post in yellow was made by one of our members who may have an idea about what's coming, but he can't say exactly what....does sound as though it will be exciting.
Twitter: @BrianCWeed
Website: http://briancweed.com
The copied post in yellow was made by one of our members who may have an idea about what's coming, but he can't say exactly what....does sound as though it will be exciting.