Panasonic 4K GH4 possibly coming next Spring...

i predict a big load of BULLSHlT on this one
If they cant put out a working prototype today what makes you think they can have production next month?
Who do you think they are? Blackmagic design? ;-)

Remember panasonic broadcast (consumer & pro video) is different from Lumix division (still & p/s)

There will be an announcement by panasonic broadcast on april but it wont be available until end of the year.
Next gh will be announced sept by panasonic lumix and wont be available worldwide till next year. Count on that!
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It will come out the moment it is ready to come out. Not a day earlier not a day later. This is such rehashed bull crap. If we use our brain and learned from lessons from the past we should know by now how it will play out. Criticism by a few is cheap and these camera companies don't give a damn about it because they now that at the end of the road they are going to sell 4Ks by the millions.
 
Im speculating based on Panasonic's history.
now sony on the other hand has been completely different and has been spitting out different kinds of camera one after the other.

i would love to be wrong on panasonic. Ive used all their products since dvx100 but based on the last 3 years, im not expecting any huge change on their schedule.

Im not saying there wont be a camera announcement his year, because there will certainly be.
 
Im speculating based on Panasonic's history.
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Yep, I know the feeling! Panasonic has been hard on the nerves! But I learned the lesson with them. I am ready to wait and wait and wait some more! LOL! Can't wait to see what they are going to do with this one!
 
Shenan said:
I agree that it is likely to still be a hybrid camera, but nothing prevents them from focusing on improving video features this time around (like the items I mentioned in my previous post).


True, no one knows if they will actually use this chip. It just seems reasonable because they just announced it two months ago. I also don't understand all the engineering details of sensor chips in any kind of depth, so could be reading the spec sheet the wrong way.
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They may improve the video features, and given normal march of progress it would be surprising if such didn't happen, but at a fundamental level any designer from any manufacturer has to decide from the outset whether their design will be *primarily* intended for stills or video use. Not that long ago it was virtually a one or the other choice, far less the case now, but even if more technically possible it still needs to be taken into account.

And photosite count is a good example. It's no accident that such as the F5, C300 etc have got 3840x2160. Such will give first rate 1080 and 720 with minimal processing effort, and 4K with full deBayering. But such chips (about 8 megapixel) are not nowadays seen as high enough resolution for still photography. Build a chip with a higher count and it becomes more difficult to derive good video from it, at least with current technology. There are three basic options in the case of the chip you link to (and it's count indicates with certainty that it's been designed primarily for stills):

1] Do some form of pixel skipping or binning. Don't read all the sites every frame. That's been most common method up to now, with varying results. The GH series seems to be doing it as well as possible - but you still don't get anything like full 1080 resolution.

2] Use the central area of the chip that measures 3840x2160. Should give excellent results (better than above) without too much effort - but will lead to a crop effect, lenses will appear more telephoto.

3] Read the full sensor at frame rate, fully deBayer and downscale to desired resolution. It's arguably the least compromised way to do it - but needs a lot of processing, and hence likely power, heat etc - which is why still cameras haven't done it in the past. It's possible that with purpose designed chips we may be seeing this start to happen without needing too much power etc. We'll see, just don't underestimate the difficulties.

The references to 4 and 9 pixel for 1080 and 720 video modes lead me strongly to suspect case 2 - but will people accept the cropping issue? I wonder if it may be AS WELL as the first option? Give users the choice between optimum quality - but cropping, or full frame with reduced resolution etc?

Technical aspects aside, then what one user may consider essential for video, another may consider a nuisance for still photography in terms of size etc. XLRs are a good example, and whilst it's been suggested they may be accommodated with an extra block, then how is the video division of Panasonic likely to see that coming from the still camera division? Poaching on their territory? Or may we see another shake up in their corporate structuring? I don't know.

Shenan said:
I'm curious what makes you think it's highly likely to be coming from the still camera division and not the video division? The physical format? The CES mock-up? Thanks.
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The CES mockup is labelled "Lumix", which AFAIK is Panasonics still camera division, not video. Similarly the use of the "GH" designation.

Pure rumours are one thing - a physical mockup in a manufacturers booth quite another. Most of the rumours about tech specs are still just that - rumours - IMO, but this does seem evidence that "the new thing" will come from the GH stable, not that of the AF100.

The other big question is "when", but if it is from Lumix, it's unlikely to be NAB. That's when the video division are likely to want to hold stage.
 
Nice overview harddrive

The fact that Panny put a 4k label on their CES model, to me, says this camera is primarily built for video. Why else would a camera manufacturer make that the most prominent marking on the camera?

Its interesting to speculate about the whole inter company strategy and the possibility of some toe stepping. I don't known what the culture is at that company but it is distinctly possible that there are warring departments. Even if that isn't true there has to be a lot due consideration and planning to build products that don't cannibalize sales from their pro divisions. I would imagine this is somewhat of a challenge in many of the big companies (Sony, Canon...etc)

It must be complicated because each of these companies are now completely aware that pros (I.e people who make money from shooting) are now using products from their non-pro divisions to make money. Companies like Black Magic get this but they are IMO, too small to really capitalize on this opening or weakness. This is why it was with great interest that I came across the new Samsung NX30 post on this website. I don't know about others but I have never considered buying a Samsung Camera before, the NX30 piqued my interest.

It kind of struck me that Samsung is probably the only serious large electronics manufacturer to be in a position to build a 'Dragon Slayer'. As an organization they really don't have anything to lose. They have enough expertise and professionalism to put out a top notch product if they so chose. As far as I know they don't have a cinema/pro division to harm. If they came out with a pro usable camera at the right price point and with killer features it could cause a whole lot of damage to the Sony's and Panny's of the world .

Anyways, just wanted to start my morning with a bunch speculation and conjecture....as you were...lol
 
True North, I agree about the Samsung NX30. You have a company not known for high end cameras introducing the first tilt able electronic viewfinder. This is a real big move towards developing a pro video camera. I wonder if the GH4 will have this type innovation.
 
True North said:
The fact that Panny put a 4k label on their CES model, to me, says this camera is primarily built for video. Why else would a camera manufacturer make that the most prominent marking on the camera?
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For one thing, "4K" is grabbing a lot of attention at CES - even if many people don't fully know what it means! It's also the sort of thing that marketing people love - very short and snappy, and immediately signals "I'm the latest and greatest!"

It indicates the camera is capable of 4K video - but there's 4K video and 4K video. Even if two scenes may look the same at first, one may stand up to grading etc far better than the other. It's speculation, but that of Shenan about the sensor seems probable. If it is so, then with that photosite count there is no way any camera built with it is optimised for video. All the other GH cameras have been stills cameras first..... why should this be different?
True North said:
Its interesting to speculate about the whole inter company strategy and the possibility of some toe stepping. I don't known what the culture is at that company but it is distinctly possible that there are warring departments.
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You don't even need warring departments. With the best will in the world, then any divisional structure is likely to lead to overlaps and there needs to be someone taking a good overview to stop too many problems for the sake of the company as a whole. A video mode in a still camera is one thing, I just don't see how it can be allowed to become the prime centre of interest.
 
harddrive said:
For one thing, "4K" is grabbing a lot of attention at CES - even if many people don't fully know what it means! It's also the sort of thing that marketing people love - very short and snappy, and immediately signals "I'm the latest and greatest!"

It indicates the camera is capable of 4K video - but there's 4K video and 4K video. Even if two scenes may look the same at first, one may stand up to grading etc far better than the other. It's speculation, but that of Shenan about the sensor seems probable. If it is so, then with that photosite count there is no way any camera built with it is optimised for video. All the other GH cameras have been stills cameras first..... why should this be different?

You don't even need warring departments. With the best will in the world, then any divisional structure is likely to lead to overlaps and there needs to be someone taking a good overview to stop too many problems for the sake of the company as a whole. A video mode in a still camera is one thing, I just don't see how it can be allowed to become the prime centre of interest.
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You are of course correct, I didn't articulate my point properly.

The GH series is of course primarily a stills shooter and while I don't have numbers, I imagine that the vast majority of purchasers bought it for primarily stills shooting. I have no way to prove this but I believe that a significant # of people bought the GH2/3 etc... because it shoots decent stills AND shoots decent video. I believe that a large number of GH users intend to use the cam for both stills and video and therefore the video component on this Camera is more relevant to a larger number of its user base than other typical DSLR's in the same class.

What I should have said is that I believe that the primary focus of this most recent GH cam is for the upgrade in Video. There will probably be more pixels in the sensor for more detailed stills, but I think the primary focus on this most recent version is on upgrading the Video. While I agree that 4K will be a heavily marketed term, the reason it is on this camera is because it will appeal to a good portion of it's user base who in my opinion find the video capabilities of this camera to be important. Marketing is fairly sophisticated and there is a reason why that 4K badge is on this camera. It's a bit dismissive to say the 4K badge is there purely on the whim of some marketing execs wishes. I guarantee you that they have enough information on their user base to know what they want and know.
 
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I think expectations will be sinking from a MFT C100 equivalent to GH3+, not that a 2000 dollar GH3 that shoots decent 4K is a bad thing. It doesn't look very modular, as all the rumours were saying it'd be, unless they add a battery grip. That being said, they probably only bothered showing the camera with a new sticker to get the idea of their new camera in people's heads, so that they don't make other purchases if a GH4 would be their ideal next one.
 
IanTheM said:
That being said, they probably only bothered showing the camera with a new sticker to get the idea of their new camera in people's heads, so that they don't make other purchases if a GH4 would be their ideal next one.
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This, above all. I expect many who now know of this camera will hold up on any DSLR purchases until they have more info. It will probably even cut into the sales of the Sony AX100. These two cameras will be battling to be the choice in the cheaper 4K acquisition market.
 
i prefer a GH with old features +
>1080p 120fps-240fps
>8bit 422 50mbps IPB (or 10bit)
>better DR (like 11 or 12+ stops)
>peaking

very doable but who knows how likely.

4K dont care as much atleast until technology has caught up.
 
dcloud said:
i prefer a GH with old features +
>1080p 120fps-240fps
>8bit 422 50mbps IPB (or 10bit)
>better DR (like 11 or 12+ stops)
>peaking

very doable but who knows how likely.

4K dont care as much atleast until technology has caught up.
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THIS + throw in a kick-ass EVF...
 
TheDingo said:
Depending on how you shoot and process your footage in post, I would peg it at around 9+ stops. (GH2 is about 1 stop less)
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Wow.....I had no idea it was that low.... but I guess people are obviously getting plenty of use out of it. It's just not the right camera for certain situations.

Is that 9+ stops of 'useable' DR?
 
^ No way
The BMC has 9.5 usable stops in RAW mode, 8 in prores. The 5D2 has 6 usable stops in H.264 video (more than 11 if you go "absolute" instead of "usable").
(my measures)
 
dcloud said:
i prefer a GH with old features +
>1080p 120fps-240fps
>8bit 422 50mbps IPB (or 10bit)
>better DR (like 11 or 12+ stops)
>peaking

very doable but who knows how likely.

4K dont care as much atleast until technology has caught up.
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I hope this entire 4k hooplah drives down the prices of some great 1080p cams, it'd be cool to snag a C100 for what a 5D3 costs.
 
IanTheM said:
drives down the prices of some great 1080p cams, it'd be cool to snag a C100 for what a 5D3 costs.
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Not really. Used ones eventually but when 2k becomes outdated enough they will just stop making the cameras. SD-cams didn't suddenly drop in price when HD came out (at least not here in Sweden). I remember paying almost the same price for an SD-cam when I "discovered" HD by mistake, returned the SD-cam and well was it a good choice...

Anyway, if Panny bundles the GH4K in a GH3 body like the proto that would be awesome. I think the body is great.
 
Samuel H said:
^ No way
The BMC has 9.5 usable stops in RAW mode, 8 in prores. The 5D2 has 6 usable stops in H.264 video (more than 11 if you go "absolute" instead of "usable").
(my measures)
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Sam, were your measures in this comparison when in video mode?

The odd thing is, I've seen BMPCC owners say countless times how their camera has in the vicinity of 13 stops of DR. Is this bogus? Nothing would surprise me.
 
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