PAL vs NTSC model comparison

Martin Landsburg

Martin Landsburg

Well-known member
Would like to make a list of benefits/drawbacks of PAL vs NTSC models. I'm in PAL land, but I'm leaning towards an NTSC model unless someone tells me otherwise.

NTSC benefits over PAL:
60p @720p
no recording limit
DVD can be played on PAL DVD player

PAL:
this is a question of whether you still need to remove pulldown or does this not apply to PAL models?

Other than that the only benefit of buying a PAL model I could see is availability and no need for a power adapter (220v compared to 110v).

If anyone has experience using an NTSC model in PAL land, and possible drawback I would need to consider, please let me know!

Thanks
Martin
 
The main disadvantage is the 50 Hz electricity issue, ie; to avoid flickering from fluorescents, sodiums and such lights you must shoot at 1/100 or 1/50. In 720p mode the 1/50 shutter forces the NTSC GH1s to drop the frame rate to 29.97. So you loose a whole step of exposure or the slow-motion option in many artificial light situations. And at real-time 25 fps playback a 1/100 shutter speed can feel terribly jerky on pans and fast movement as you don't get enough motion blur to smooth things out.

Then you'd also have the troubles of retiming 29.97 fps to 25 fps if you do anything for broadcast, maybe not an issue for you. For me this is an absolute workflow killer.

On the other hand retiming 25 fps to 24 for cinema by just slowing down the final edit with 4% for a frame-to-frame conversion is fairly trival - in fact it's not a uncommon practice in Europe where many features are being financed to great extent with money from broadcast stations. I'd venture as far as to suggest US people to consider using a PAL version for indie features as the 25/50 fps - 1/50 shutter slowed down by 4% looks exactly like 24 - 1/48 shutter. On the other hand the difference between 1/60 and 1/48 can be quite perceivable, even for many ordinary viewers. The fine ol' digital/video vs film 'motion feel' debate. Of course there would be the the reverse problem of 60 Hz electricity but that's also a issue when shooting at 24 fps.

No pulldown removal is needed on the 1080p 50i/25fps AVCHD - the fields just merges to full frames and from what I've seen so far PAL 1080 seem to suffer less from the 'mud' artifacts. Perhaps getting 25 full frames into a 50i stream is less demanding on the CPU than getting 24 frames into a 60i stream but that's just a guess.

The battery charger is international, works with 110 - 240 V so that's not a problem at all.

If the 30 minute recording limit is a real trouble for you then the PAL models sold in Hong Kong don't have it.

I don't see how DVD playback can be listed as a benefit for the NTSC model - PAL footage plays back just as good on a PAL DVD player to a PAL TV.

All this said I might get a NTSC model if embarking on some bigger project just for the first reason you mention - to have a second 'stunt' camera with 60 fps recording for slow-motion. I'd still use my PAL one for everything else.

commanderspike may disagree on parts or all of this as he do indeed have and use a NTSC camera in UK.
 
I'd add 1/30 to the speeds you can shoot safely at in PAL land on a NTSC GH1. Maybe not quite 100% flicker proof under some forms of street lighting but it seems to work fine indoors no matter what lighting type you may have. Also 1/25 in 720p mode (with manual focus) is bullet proof under PAL street lights. This was all shot at 1/25 http://www.vimeo.com/5744461

For slow mo under electric PAL lighting, you will lose about 1 stop of low light performance between 1/60 and 1/100. But I find with a fast lens I need to stop the shutter down quite a lot anyway, otherwise I have to give up on depth of field and shut the lens down. Depends on how bright your lights are really.

If you're shooting 1080 24p under PAL lights, the 1/30 or 1/50 shutter speeds give great results and you'd not notice the the difference between the NTSC footage and PAL footage.

The advantages of NTSC are the faster 60p for natural light slow mo and better international compatibility. The USA and much of Asia (China's PAL regions apart) are big places :)

Can a PAL camera be used in NTSC land without flicker and can this be avoided with the right shutter speeds? I am not so sure it can.
 
commanderspike said:
I'd add 1/30 to the speeds you can shoot safely at in PAL land on a NTSC GH1. Maybe not quite 100% flicker proof under some forms of street lighting but it seems to work fine indoors no matter what lighting type you may have. Also 1/25 in 720p mode (with manual focus) is bullet proof under PAL street lights. This was all shot at 1/25 http://www.vimeo.com/5744461

For slow mo under electric PAL lighting, you will lose about 1 stop of low light performance between 1/60 and 1/100. But I find with a fast lens I need to stop the shutter down quite a lot anyway, otherwise I have to give up on depth of field and shut the lens down. Depends on how bright your lights are really.

If you're shooting 1080 24p under PAL lights, the 1/30 or 1/50 shutter speeds give great results and you'd not notice the the difference between the NTSC footage and PAL footage.

The advantages of NTSC are the faster 60p for natural light slow mo and better international compatibility. The USA and much of Asia (China's PAL regions apart) are big places :)

Can a PAL camera be used in NTSC land without flicker and can this be avoided with the right shutter speeds? I am not so sure it can.
Click to expand...

I think you will find that the bulk of Asia is PAL, as is Europe, and the Pacific.

I have a NZ bought PAL camera that has unrestricted recording ability (in AVCHD).

Benefits of PAL: No pull down, no need to retime 720p footage (just drop every second frame).

Disadvantages of PAL: Not quite 24fps, lower 720p frame rate for slow motion.

Edit: If you think that NTSC is more international compare the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL#Countries_and_territories_using_PAL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC#Countries_and_territories_using_NTSC
 
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Yep, point well made. NTSC is only in Japan and Taiwan, plus a few other parts of Asia. The majority is indeed PAL, as is Europe.

But I mean, America and Japan are not exactly insignificant shooting territories. Give me a camera that can shoot the lights of New York or the electric dreams of Tokyo any day rather than a PAL camera that has no documented work arounds.

I am still yet to hear anyone say that their PAL camera handles NTSC lighting okay. If it did, I'd jump at the chance to pick one up down the road here in the UK.
 
I would prefer to shoot in the hundreds of beautiful cities in Europe and Russia myself. Let alone my home country, so each to their own.
 
If you are in PAL land and shoot for PAL land, then get a PAL camera. Quite simple :D Saves you alot of hassles.

I bought a NTSC HVX in Japan 2 years ago, but just because it was half of the german price. It is usable, but got quite some drawbacks.

1. Shooting for broadcast not really easy
2. Problems with PAL DVD Productions
2. Lighting/Shutter restrictions
2. Slowmo restrictions

And don't forget the resale price. Try to sell a NTSC camera in PAL land and see what you get.

I don't shoot for broadcast, so that's not a problem. Producing a PAL DVD introduces some more hassles. The shutter and lighting restrictions you can work around, but it definitely is annoying! Slowmo at 60fps is actually not possible without slight flickering under artificial lighting. At least what I know from my testing.

It was still the right camera for me and I don't regret it at all. But I would say it doesnt make sense for you. There is no big price difference. And you can get a PAL GH1 without time restriction (e./g. Hong Kong). And to get the 10 more slowmo frames is not worth the problems you get.

I bought my GH1 in Hong Kong as well and will probably pick up another one before I leave in December.
 
Simon Höfer said:
I don't shoot for broadcast, so that's not a problem. Producing a PAL DVD introduces some more hassles. The shutter and lighting restrictions you can work around, but it definitely is annoying! Slowmo at 60fps is actually not possible without slight flickering under artificial lighting. At least what I know from my testing.

It was still the right camera for me and I don't regret it at all. But I would say it doesnt make sense for you. There is no big price difference. And you can get a PAL GH1 without time restriction (e./g. Hong Kong). And to get the 10 more slowmo frames is not worth the problems you get.

I bought my GH1 in Hong Kong as well and will probably pick up another one before I leave in December.
Click to expand...

On a global scale, of course both the PAL & NTSC models are better suited to some places than others. There are many great cities I'd like to shoot in... and I can with an NTSC camera, shoot in Manchester, London or Paris, etc.

But the point I am getting at, is that I have work arounds for shooting with a NTSC GH1 in the UK which work fine, but have not yet tried a PAL GH1 in a NTSC country.

Would the same or similar workarounds be valid? Does the PAL GH1 have multiples of 30 for it's shutter speeds? Because 1/50 and 1/100 won't cut it for NTSC lighting. I know Philip Bloom had issues under US lighting with his PAL model.

So pros and cons for both.

What bugs me is that the GH1 is a great travel camera yet is stuck to PAL or NTSC not for technical reasons, but for Panasonic's business reasons.

Slow mo on a NTSC camera in PAL land under electric lighting is possible at 1/100, no?
 
Would NTSC have the advantage in 1080p mode? 24fps would seem to be less to compress than 25fps - putting less strain on the 17mbs available to the codec?
 
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