P2 + Tape (New Poll!)

[stephenlnoe]

I wouldn't be surprised if they showed up at NAB with two cameras. I've seen the super 8 look alike and the DVX look alike.
This idea that a tape drive along with a P2 socket undercuts their confidence in P2 is balony. P2 is supported by 5 NLE's today. It is not new. I'd like both and I really think that P2 will soon include mini hard drives. I've felt that all along.

 

[shAi]

i smell a bet :happy:

 

[Barry_Green]

So if they only tape transport they could put on it would be a DV transport, that seems kind of useless to me.

Depends on what kind of work you do. If you get hired to shoot and hand over a tape at the end of the day, then a DV tape is likely going to be the most-compatible, most-in-demand format. I've shot lots of event/convention things this year alone, and every time they ask for a DV tape. I'd rather it be multi-format-capable, but if there could only be one kind, then DV is the right choice, IMHO, because it's what the installed base of producers and production companies is expecting me to be able to supply to them.

I'm still skeptical about the tape issue given that Jan has flat out said 'this little camera will not record to tape' as well as, 'no moving parts except those in the lens.

Jan has finally yielded, she promised she'd confirm for me the whole tape or no-tape thing. She said she's a little busy right now, but she'd let me know on Monday. April 18.

 

[LloydC]

Jan has finally yielded, she promised she'd confirm for me the whole tape or no-tape thing. She said she's a little busy right now, but she'd let me know on Monday. April 18.

... sneaky panasonic reps :evil:

 

[Justin_Kirch]

Now, the real question is, would the camera be able to record in both these formats at the same time?

It could be practical that way, seeing how a client would want a tape by the end of the day, but you could make a dvd with some HD footage.

That would be awesome.

 

[Green Hornet]

Why not 3 cameras?

Why not 3 cameras?

It seems to me that there will be 3 cameras.

They first mentioned a $3,000 price point head to head against the sony.
Ala HDX100
The super 8 looking camera seemed to fit that bill providing:
720p /24, 30 60i
480p/24, 30, 60i
(2) p2 cards

Then they add 1080p to the above plus
Wider, better lens, bigger front element.
(3) p2 cards
Ala HDX200
Price $5,000

Now toss in the ability to also use DVCpro tapes in a larger shoulder cam
and 5 card slots
Ala HDX400
Price $10,000

The zombie is out of the bag!

Hey, they is a good name for the camera...the Zombie!http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=194564#
:undecided

 

[speedbump]

Noooooooooooo!

Noooooooooooo!

Given that Jan has said there are no moving parts in the HVX, other than lens-related hardware, this is 'line-in-the-sand' talk.

Panasonic is betting its future on solid-state media. *sigh* Monkey whip out credit card.

 

[Zim]

Would the DV tape be real native 16:9? That would be great.

 

[Barry_S]

Panasonic is betting it's future on P2, but they're not foolish. They're not discontinuing all of their tape-based cameras and the two technologies will be peacefully coexisting for a time. Jan has already stated that P2 is not going to fill everyone's needs--hence the continued production of the SDX900. The first thing I thought about the specs of the HVX200 was--this camera is all about giving users choices. I see Barry Green feels the same. The fact Panny is putting P2 on a product at the HVX200's price point says more abou their committment to P2 than anything else. Does the fact that the camera includes SD aquisition show a lack of committment to HD? Of course not, we're going to be in a transition period for some time. The same goes for storage, so why wouldn't Panasonic offer choices?

Does a tape mechanism seem to be contrary to Jan's statement about no moving parts? Yes. But tell me why David Craig, a product manager for Panasonic Canada would announce that SD would be recorded on DVC Pro tape? That's product manager, not sales rep. Also, if Jan already stated that there's going to be no moving parts other than in the lens, why wouldn't she just state that there's no tape drive? Isn't it saying the exact same thing?

They're doing a good job keeping us guessing because some of you are certain there's a tape drive, some of you are convinced of P2 and no tape, and the rest of us are scratching our heads.

 

[Terry_Lasater]

I'm scratchin'...

 

[Aaron Koolen]

this camera is all about giving users choices. I see Barry Green feels the same. The fact Panny is putting P2 on a product at the HVX200's price point says more abou their committment to P2 than anything else. Does the fact that the camera includes SD aquisition show a lack of committment to HD? Of course not, we're going to be in a transition period for some time. The same goes for storage, so why wouldn't Panasonic offer choices?

Yes, but it's not like they're just "adding on some p2" to give us options - it seems we will not have HD recording on tape, only to P2. With all the craze for P2, you HAVE to make is accessible to peple in our price bracket, or they will pick up a Sony or JVC instead. Cheap HD recording, probably regardless of DVCProHD's superiority as a codec.

Aaron

 

[Zim]

It will be great if they put a mini DV drive on this camera. Wouldn't that be like have a DVX 100, 16:9 with the option to go to HD with the P2 card?

What are you guys complaining about!

A panasonic rep told me 3 weeks ago this thing could have a tape drive, but it sounded like they were in the dark about it or just couldn't say.

You don't have to use the tape drive. Just never stick a tape in it.

 

[saru]

According to the rep I talked, It will have a tape drive, though I forgot to ask if it can record other than DV25, my bad.

So to sum up what I heard,

* 82mm threads fixed lens
* Two P2 slots + tape drive
* 6500 for the camera, 2000 for one 4GB P2 card x2 (you need two for continuous recording), = "Under 10000"

I'm sure there'll be more surprises, especially for the framerate thing

 

[Graeme_Nattress]

Did the Panasonic Canada rep say that, or is he just reported as saying that? At least we know exactly what Jan said.

This is getting more confusing by the minute. As for the camera having two slots, not three - I reckon that would be a disaster given the time it takes to dump one 4GB P2 card to disk for 720p60.

Graeme

 

[Aaron Koolen]

I think we should all just close our browers, then open them back up on NAB day and wow! The information will magically turn from conjecture to fact.

Aaron

 

[Mediacre]

One thing everybody seems to be overlooking. Is this camera recording DV25 or DVCPRO25? I think it's DVCPRO25 and in that case I never see a mini-DVCPRO tape. DVCPRO is MP not ME like DV. I think a tape deck is improbable.

 

[Neil Rowe]

hmmm... i just dont see a real big motivation for pany to throw in a DV tape deck on there. almost certainly it wouldnt have a DVCPRO deck.. so the only thing you could record to tape would be the DV /DVCPRO25 . i would think that they would just let you do an EXT record to a tape deck if you wanted via firewire before they went and put a deck on the camera. considering that the longest record times to P2 would be when in DVCPRO25 mode.

im just not sure. although its nice for workflow and certain gigs sometimes.. it seems like a step backwards in some ways for the cam. i think im leaning towards all this tape drive stuf being misinformation or misunderstanding. its very contrary to to what weve been told so far. i mean pany might want to throw curveballs, but i dont think jan would straight up lie about anything. i for one take "no moving parts but the lense" to mean " no moving parts but the lense". .. who knows though? maybe the wording of what she said makes sense but is also ambiguous as to where or how it makes sense? .. whatever. ..well just have to wait and see.. NAB.. here we come!

 

[Green Hornet]

Tape drive

Tape drive

I think they WILL have a tape drive, just at a different level of entry.

Jan did say the HDX200 won't have a tape drive, but my guess would be that the model up would. This would be benificial for persons who need long runtimes such as events, or multicamera coverage with one of the cameras locked down.

Another value of having Tape, is to enabe one to shoot P2 in the field, edit, then dump the edit to tape for delivery.

Tape is by no means dead yet.
In a fast, cheap, good, - world where you can only pick any combination of 2, leaving out the third, Tape would still be: Cheap, and good, just not very fast.


Green Hornet

 

[Neil Rowe]

..if there was a model up, i think it would more than likely have a HDD instead of tape.

 

[Green Hornet]

Re: Hdd

Re: Hdd

..if there was a model up, i think it would more than likely have a HDD instead of tape.

If you have P2, you don't need HDD onboard.
You can buy any hard drive for that purpose.
It would be more difficult to find a DVCpro deck at a moments notice.
Having the tape "onboard" allows one to provide a copy, or copies of an event/job.

I wouldn't want to give up my hard drive, or P2 cards at the end of an event.
In any "pay per day" type shooting, giving up your machinery can be cost prohibitive over time.

The counter to that is you will bill the client for that.....well, I say, that client you use to have will now work with me, as I provide a better "value".
I see too many people that have so much overhead that they never turn a profit.
I know more people who gross more than I do, yet live like they are in poverty. I can't live that way.


I am getting off topic.

I think HDD is a great concept for in house productions where everything stays in house, otherwise, it doesn't work for the guy who needs to surrender his footage . The tape transport works where the guy would otherwise need to cary along a seperate deck.

Most editing is done in a somewhat linear fashion, by someone who was not the shooter. In the majority of the cases, the editor will need to view all of the footage anyway, so a tape medium is not as negative as it may initially appear.
It may save "thread time" by the editor, but he will still have to view the footage in real time, the same time it takes to live capture from tape.


At the end of the day, I would rather give up a tape, than a HDD.
That cost really is the camera operators, not the clients, no matter how you attempt to disguise it.