It looks like another HVX200 detail was released at the Toronto DVXusers meeting. P2 for HD and DVCPRO tape for SD recording. User Pure needs to confirm this, but if it's true, it certainly removes a financial obstacle for a lot of people. HVX200 users would have a very easy upgrade path to P2/HD as costs drop. I'd be pretty happy shooting DVCPRO50 for a time and upgrading as elements in the HD workflow beome less expensive and more prevalent. If hard disk recording is also offered as an option (and I think it will), then you'd have three storage options. Can't complain about that. :happy:
P2 + Tape (New Poll!)
- Thread starter Barry_S
- Start date
Graeme_Nattress
Red Team
Hasn't Jan repeatedly denied there's any moving parts other than the lens on the HDX200 though? In a little over a week we'll know for certain.
Graeme
Graeme
No. It's been discussed a lot, and people have been guessing, but Panasonic hasn't confirmed it. If you have something that's more than a rumor I'd love to see it. If true, this is the closest thing I've seen to any kind of "official" confirmation, so let's not confuse fact and rumor.
redindian said:
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Graeme_Nattress said:
I thought that was the case as well Graeme.
Also, Jan had mentioned at one point that another reason a tape transport was out of the question was that the strength wasn't there for DVCPro50 or HD recording to miniDV tapes (as they need to run much faster). As of now, the only DVCPro50 tapes made are large shell, aren't they? Looking at the 'shower curtain' photo of the HVX200, it doesn't seem that a large shell transport would fit on that body.
Do you think Panasonic is planning on coming out with a new miniDVCPro50 tape shell to fit in the HVX?
While this would be an interesting development, I'm still skeptical to believe it.
Was anyone at that meeting that could confirm this information, and what was the source?
It's going to be a long week...
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas
Here's the link to Pure's post.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?p=194378#post194378
They got a "preview" from some Panasonic Canada reps. I'd definitely like to get a confirmation on this as there's been conflicting reports.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?p=194378#post194378
They got a "preview" from some Panasonic Canada reps. I'd definitely like to get a confirmation on this as there's been conflicting reports.
Graeme_Nattress
Red Team
I severly doubt it will have tape. The P2 800 camera doesn't have tape, so why should the HDX200. Any lack of comitment to P2 from Panasonic would be seen as weakness, as a form of admitting a kind of failure in their P2 strategy, and I don't see that happening.
Reading Pure's comment, he doesn't mention tape, just DVCpro, which could be confusing the codec with the tape format.
As an asside, at the Toronto FCP UG meeting, I was told that the Z1 recorded DV, DVCAM and HDV to the same DV tape simultaneously, and that they had been told so by a Sony rep. They hadn't been told that, they'd just got codecs and tapes confused. I expect the same sort of thing is happening here.
Graeme
Reading Pure's comment, he doesn't mention tape, just DVCpro, which could be confusing the codec with the tape format.
As an asside, at the Toronto FCP UG meeting, I was told that the Z1 recorded DV, DVCAM and HDV to the same DV tape simultaneously, and that they had been told so by a Sony rep. They hadn't been told that, they'd just got codecs and tapes confused. I expect the same sort of thing is happening here.
Graeme
Luis Caffesse
Admin
I have to agree with both of you, I'm pretty sure there is some confusion going on.
The post said this:
(I hope it's alright to quote it)
"All HD footage will be recorded on P2 through 2 slots. SD footage will be recorded on DVCPro."
Seems like a basic confusion between recording medium and codec.
Not to mention that Pure never made a direct mention of tape at all...only that the SD footage will be recorded on DVCPro, which easily could have been a distinction made by the rep to point out that this camera is recording DVCPro as opposed to the DVX100 which records DV.
Also, I would point out that Pure also said:
"P2 is an amazing new format"
Not to get nitpicky here, but P2 is not a 'format' anymore than Hard Drives are a 'format.'
So, it probably was just a misunderstanding which spun into internet rumour.
That's never happened before, right?
The post said this:
(I hope it's alright to quote it)
"All HD footage will be recorded on P2 through 2 slots. SD footage will be recorded on DVCPro."
Seems like a basic confusion between recording medium and codec.
Not to mention that Pure never made a direct mention of tape at all...only that the SD footage will be recorded on DVCPro, which easily could have been a distinction made by the rep to point out that this camera is recording DVCPro as opposed to the DVX100 which records DV.
Also, I would point out that Pure also said:
"P2 is an amazing new format"
Not to get nitpicky here, but P2 is not a 'format' anymore than Hard Drives are a 'format.'
So, it probably was just a misunderstanding which spun into internet rumour.
That's never happened before, right?
stephenlnoe
Well-known member
9995? sounds like Earl Scheib
9995? sounds like Earl Scheib
For 9995 you better get a full rig that is field ready without any additional purchases. I can't imagine even with the HD that the camera would be over 6K unless it has all of the P2 Slots filled to capacity.
9995? sounds like Earl Scheib
For 9995 you better get a full rig that is field ready without any additional purchases. I can't imagine even with the HD that the camera would be over 6K unless it has all of the P2 Slots filled to capacity.
I agree with Graeme. A tape transport would be admitting insecurity pn the P2 system. Panasonic is trying hard to promote it and win a slice of the market for P2. They wouldn't do that. He's also right on the money when he mentions the SPX800 not having tape.If the SPX800 which has more room for a tape transport than the little HVX doesn't have it, why would they stick it in the smaller HVX and not in the big SPX? It won't have it, most likely.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Okay, here's the thing -- let's take 'em at face value and believe that they did, indeed, say "SD to tape, HD to P2 cards." And, that they knew factually what they were talking about. If that's true, it begs the question: what KIND of SD gets recorded to tape? And to what kind of tape?
In the other thread, I pointed out that the SPX and the SDX differ in price by $7,250, and primarily the only difference is that the SDX includes a DVCPRO50 tape deck. All DVCPRO50 gear is pricey.
Leads me to conclude that DVCPRO50 decks cost money to make, and at the low price the HVX is being talked about (and please, let's not get in a discussion of what qualifies as "low") I can't imagine that they'll offer a DVCPRO50 tape transport in there. The cheapest DVCPRO50 camera is $19,000. Doesn't seem possible. I'd love for it to have it, but it just doesn't seem practical.
The cheapest DVCPRO25 camera is $8,000. Still pricey, but I guess the tape deck component would be affordable enough for inclusion a $10,000-class camera. So maybe it'll have DVCPRO25 tape in it. Now, DV, on the other hand... you've got DV transports showing up in $299 cameras at Circuit City. And the bitstream is identical between DVCPRO25 and DV. I'd expect a better-than-$299-quality DV transport in a $10,000 camera, but... hey, it raises the point that maybe, maybe, maybe we're talking about DV on tape, and DVCPRO50/DVCPRO-HD on cards.
Now, that would be pretty interesting. And certainly would fit the price model. And heck, it'd let you use the camera on the first day, with familiar DV tape for DV-caliber shots... I'd take it. I'd absolutely take it. I'd prefer that it have more capability, sure... but I'd rather it have a DV tape drive than not, because that opens up a world of possibilities (in case people don't remember, the DVX produces some *very* nice looking video on DV tape). Having a DV tape deck would give you compatibility today, and growth tomorrow...
Very interesting.
Very interesting indeed.
In the other thread, I pointed out that the SPX and the SDX differ in price by $7,250, and primarily the only difference is that the SDX includes a DVCPRO50 tape deck. All DVCPRO50 gear is pricey.
Leads me to conclude that DVCPRO50 decks cost money to make, and at the low price the HVX is being talked about (and please, let's not get in a discussion of what qualifies as "low") I can't imagine that they'll offer a DVCPRO50 tape transport in there. The cheapest DVCPRO50 camera is $19,000. Doesn't seem possible. I'd love for it to have it, but it just doesn't seem practical.
The cheapest DVCPRO25 camera is $8,000. Still pricey, but I guess the tape deck component would be affordable enough for inclusion a $10,000-class camera. So maybe it'll have DVCPRO25 tape in it. Now, DV, on the other hand... you've got DV transports showing up in $299 cameras at Circuit City. And the bitstream is identical between DVCPRO25 and DV. I'd expect a better-than-$299-quality DV transport in a $10,000 camera, but... hey, it raises the point that maybe, maybe, maybe we're talking about DV on tape, and DVCPRO50/DVCPRO-HD on cards.
Now, that would be pretty interesting. And certainly would fit the price model. And heck, it'd let you use the camera on the first day, with familiar DV tape for DV-caliber shots... I'd take it. I'd absolutely take it. I'd prefer that it have more capability, sure... but I'd rather it have a DV tape drive than not, because that opens up a world of possibilities (in case people don't remember, the DVX produces some *very* nice looking video on DV tape). Having a DV tape deck would give you compatibility today, and growth tomorrow...
Very interesting.
Very interesting indeed.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Oh, I don't agree with that at all. P2 is flat-out revolutionary. They have nothing to be insecure about. Use it for 10 minutes, you'll be sold.Mediacre said:
This camera, so far, has been about options -- giving you three different recording formats, in two different HD resolutions, at four different frame rates. But, hey, the reality of the market is that there's a lot of stuff getting done on DV cameras right now. It's established, every station and every post house can accept DV tape and broadcast it... so why not give us DV tape as well? Puts a whole new spin on "Make a living, flip a switch, make a movie." Now it's "Make a living, switch from tape to card, make 24p high-def 1080-res 4:2:2 magic". Okay, doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it? May need to work on that marketing slogan some...
No, I'm more and more convinced that the P2 thing is giving us options that they simply couldn't do with tape. As I've said, the price difference between an SPX and an SDX is $7,250, and that's just for DVCPRO50 -- the deck apparently counts for that much (and, probably more, because the SPX has P2 slots and other goodies in it). The cheapest DVCPRO-HD deck is $25,000.
So by putting in some cheap PCMCIA adapters, which can't cost more than a few nickels since they're OEM'd to every laptop computer maker in the world, instead of a $25,000 tape drive, they let us have DVCPRO-HD for tens of thousands of dollars less.
I don't think it's about insecurity. I think it's about blowing the doors off the competition. P2's letting them do something that they never could have done on tape at this price point.
Now, as for adding a tape drive (even if it's a miniDV tape): why *wouldn't* I want that option? I'd love that option. I've made a whole lotta money shooting SD DV this year already, and I was planning on keeping the DVX for shoots like that. If the HVX includes miniDV tape, and can take a picture comparable to the DVX's, well, hey, that's ALL good. That's better for the consumer, by far. Options are always better. For those clients who want to take a DV tape with 'em, you'd be able to provide it. For those who you can up-sell on DV50 or HD, well, you'll be in a whole different league than everyone else. But with the option, you can service both clients.
I'm sold on that. Panasonic, here's a formal request: jam at least a DV tape drive in there, willya?
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Well, while it might be nice to have a DV transport on there (I"m not convinced that it would be all that great), I would find it kind of ironic. Most people seem worried about the recording time available with P2, yet 25mb/s DV is the 'smallest' of the 3 formats. An 8GB P2 card will be able to hold something over 40 minutes of DVCPro footage. So if they only tape transport they could put on it would be a DV transport, that seems kind of useless to me.
I'm still skeptical about the tape issue given that Jan has flat out said 'this little camera will not record to tape' as well as, 'no moving parts except those in the lens.'
Then again, I agree...until they remove that shower curtain at NAB, anything is still possible.
I'm still skeptical about the tape issue given that Jan has flat out said 'this little camera will not record to tape' as well as, 'no moving parts except those in the lens.'
Then again, I agree...until they remove that shower curtain at NAB, anything is still possible.
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
I smell a poll.