P2 + Tape (New Poll!)

[Zim]

What is DV cinema? My guess it will record the HD on the P2,,,but they are going to be able to record DV cinema on tape. To me this would be great. You have a DVX type cam with real 16:9. Then if you want and can afford P2 you can shoot that and in HD if you want. What a great idea...

 

[Barry_Green]

Well, they list DVCPRO50, DVCPRO, and DV as the recording formats on the SPX800 as well, and as far as I know it's an all P2 camera with no tape transport.

harlan

Harlan, I just got owned. Yes, you're right -- I looked up the SPX800 and they use the same phrasing.

Oh well.

Back to speculating, until we find out for sure on the 18th!

 

[Barry_Green]

Well if it comes out at US$5k without P2 cards, then what's the point? You get some HD camera that you can't record HD with (And possibly not even DVCPRO25), just DV25 to tape. Why bother. Get the JVC100.

There might be many reasons. What if it records to off-the-shelf firewire hard disks? Would you still want a 720p-only, 24p and 30p-only JVC HD100 when you could instead be shooting 1080 and 720 at the various frame rates, including 60i and 60p? If it has or doesn't have P2 cards may or may not be a limiting factor -- we don't know what it can record to, or how it can record to whatever it can record to.

I think if you get this camera and don't make use of the HD - you're nuts.

Depends on what you're shooting and who you're shooting for. If you have a client who's paying for HD, then yes I'd agree. If you have a client who's paying for, and only wants and only expects, SD, then I'd thoroughly disagree with you.

And if you don't have any clients, why would you be buying a $7,000 or $10,000 camcorder in the first place?

 

[dillont]

You may owe harlan a hundred bucks, mr. green

Harlan, I just got owned. Yes, you're right -- I looked up the SPX800 and they use the same phrasing.

Oh well.

Back to speculating, until we find out for sure on the 18th!

 

[harlan]

Harlan, I just got owned. Yes, you're right -- I looked up the SPX800 and they use the same phrasing.

LOL..


With or without tape, the HVX200 is going to be an awesome piece of kit.

ciao,

harlan

PS - What part of Vegas do you live in? I lived in Vegas for years

 

[harlan]

Hmmm well I'm looking at subletting my apartment if I go to LA (grad school at USC or UCLA).

I live at The Medici downtown, USC is just down the road, quite a few students live in The Medici (probably with wealthy parents or something as they all seem to drive pricey cars).

harlan

 

[Barry_Green]

Harlan, you haven't been here long, but you've mastered thread hijacking -- a trademark of DVXUser! You're fitting in quite nicely!

I'm in the NW quadrant, in Summerlin. Been here 40 years so far...

As for owing Harlan $100... well, the $100 question wasn't about tape or no tape, it was about whether the camera will waste P2 card storage space by storing duplicate frames. So that $100 is still on the table, although I'm pretty sure Mr. Franklin is staying put!

 

[dillont]

Oops. We return to your regularly scheduled speculation.

Harlan makes a splash wherever he goes. He and I are on 4 other different mailing lists.

He's prolly wondering "who the hell is this dillon guy?"

Dillon<--- thats me.

 

[Aaron Koolen]

There might be many reasons. What if it records to off-the-shelf firewire hard disks?

Fair enough, but I wasn't even beginning to think it'd support this. Given the Firestore partnership etc. I was thinking tape or p2, that's it.

[/quote]
Depends on what you're shooting and who you're shooting for. If you have a client who's paying for HD, then yes I'd agree. If you have a client who's paying for, and only wants and only expects, SD, then I'd thoroughly disagree with you.
[/quote]

I was thinking price here. If you are only going to shoot SD, then get a cheaper camera like the XL2. (Assuming we're looking at the HVX being more expensive than the XL2 and I'll bet it is, or will be if the XL2 is forced to drop price). If you need HD, then there's no argument.

And if you don't have any clients, why would you be buying a $7,000 or $10,000 camcorder in the first place?

Cause you love cameras Actually I don't have clients and will be thinking of getting it for my shorts and the non profit work I do for my non profit org. Guess that makes me my own client


Aaron

 

[stephenlnoe]

It was 'no tape' and now it's dv25? Then back again to DVCPro shells? What the hell? How in the blazes is it going to be miniDV and 422? It will have to be DVCPro tape if the SD is 422. Today is April 14th so there are only a couple of days until the spec release.

I'm hoping for DVCPro and P2. If it is only P2 then I want the full boat for 10,000 clams.

 

[Barry_Green]

There are two types of SD in the camera: one is DV (or DVCPRO25) at 4:1:1, potentially on tape; the other is DVCPRO50 at 4:2:2, definitely not on tape.

 

[stephenlnoe]

we'll see......

 

[shAi]

ill be angry to see a tape drive in there. it took jan 2 months to shift us to P2. now tape?!?

 

[Billburger]

It seems to me illogical to have a tape drive because:

1. Tape drive adds cost to manufacture and is bulky and reduces the surface of the camera body that can be used for ports and camera controls.
2. There seems to be a consensus that tape would only be for SD.
3. Nobody will buy this camera only to do SD, they must have some HD use, otherwise they will use their existing SD equipment or buy something cheaper.
4. If there is an effective way to work with P2 for HD, then it will work much better for SD (since SD is a quarter of the size). So why would you need tape for SD?
5. And if there is no way to handle HD that is cost-effective, then the camera will fail and a tape drive that records SD will not help it.

In any case I personally don't care at all about recording SD with this camera onto tape because I can already do that with what I have and if I can't effectively use it to record HD because it is prohibitively expensive or cumbersome then I'll just wait or go with HDV.

 

[Robert_Niemann]

DVCPRO50 [...] definitely not on tape

Barry, where do you know that from?
Do DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50 have not the same tape drive mechanism?

 

[Barry_S]

Exactly--you've looked at your personal needs and ruled out a tape drive.

But...look at the little poll on this thread--at least a third of the potential purchasers of the HVX200 will not buy the cam if it lacks an SD tape drive. So, why wouldn't Panasonic increase their sales by a third with a low cost tape drive? I'd say the number of people that will refuse to buy the cam because it includes an extra option they don't use would be negligible. P2 is a medium in motion--the price will be rapidly dropping over the life of the HVX200. The demand for HD content is increasing, but it's going to be some time before SD is obsolete. In a transitional time, the extra options can only help sales. P2 is not an ideology--it's a product, and Panny's keeping non-P2 products in their line for the near future. Panasonic's goal is to make money--and they do that by serving their customer's needs.

 

[reservoir]

Barry, where do you know that from?
Do DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50 have not the same tape drive mechanism?

Jan had said the DVCPRO heads would add too much cost to the camera. If there is *any* tape drive, it would most certainly be DV only.

~reservoir~

 

[Zim]

ill be angry to see a tape drive in there. it took jan 2 months to shift us to P2. now tape?!?

no tape and P2. man tape is going to be around for years,,,And if has a tape drive you never have to stick a tape in there. You can buy all the P2 cards you want. I hope Panasonic gives us a choice

 

[Robert_Niemann]

Jan had said the DVCPRO heads would add too much cost to the camera. If there is *any* tape drive, it would most certainly be DV only.

But Barry wrote: "DVCPRO25 [...] potentially on tape", whereas "DVCPRO50 [...] definitely not on tape".

 

[Phooey]

How about a dockable miniDV tape drive that just plugs right into the P2 slots? Too late now.