P2 = no more bad actors?

Scott Sullivan

Scott Sullivan

Member
Okay, bear with me on this one. I read an article a long time ago regarding digital still cameras. The long and short of it was with film, we had lots of bad pictures (not the perfect smile, etc) but they were still "fun" pictures (people clowning around, weird faces and had "character.")

Now, those "bad" pictures are deleted in-camera before they ever have a chance to be saved to the computer. So a higher percentage of photos, according to this article, are higher quality.

The point the article made was that generations from now, people will look back and see all these great images and not see the "goofy" faces Uncle Henry made that his wife didn't like so she deleted it.

Now we've got the potential for this theory to translate into our media. With so many posts already of people saying they can delete bad takes on the spot, does this mean there will be less "bad" footage? Will future generations be saying, boy, these actors were great back then! They never flubbed a line?

I personally LOVE watching raw footage sometimes just to see a person's actual character come out. I know there will always be "outtakes" and "blooper" reels, but it just seems that there may be less now that we're deleting footage on set.

Just some ramblings out loud. Your thoughts?

Scott

P.S.
I'm all for the P2 and tapeless workflow. I don't have my HVX yet, but am looking forward to a tapeless workflow. It really is revolutionizing the industry. This rant isn't picking on P2, just our tendancy to delete.
 
I certainly wouldn't delete any takes in the field. I've been through enough edits to know what a simple turn of a head in an otherwise ruined shot can save in the finished picture. A lot.

I guess it's all about choice. People love the blooper reels, and think about it - even though movies are shot on film, and only the good takes get printed and copied, how do those bad takes end up on the DVD? It's all about choice.
 
Coverage. It's amazing how you can find that one cutaway you need in an otherwise bad take.
 
you may have a point Scott

On a short film i am finishing, theres some pretty funny outakes which you dont go over as mini-dv is so cheap. On P2 without question I would have deleted these bad takes - so it's probably true in that sense. However in the long run when digital storage is very cheap, we'll be back to having so much space we wont know what to fill it up with.
 
Some very valid points about finding "gold" on these other shots. I also find that actos will deliver sometimes unusual and different reads on a busted take.. and then feel conscious about it and/or nervous and then crack up. Therefore that first initial eybrow raise and first sentence might never be captured again and be good enough to make your scene.

I also think any wardrobe malfunctions needs to be included on the unrated edition. Especially if you are working on a hooters commercial.


j
 
Yeah, there is absoulutely NO way I would delete any takes - I have saved my a** too many times with unexpected footage that earlier had been written off as a "bad take". I'm also in the middle of putting together a feature DVD for distribution and if anything I wish we had more footage for outtakes and the like. And this was on a feature with a 20:1 shooting ratio. Basically, point-and-shoot digital photography and a professional film set are two completely different worlds.
 
Blaine said:
Coverage. It's amazing how you can find that one cutaway you need in an otherwise bad take.
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Absolutely! I would strongly caution shooters from deleting takes in the field. The take would have to be so extremely bad and even then . . .

D~C
 
You have to be kidding me! Do you know how many bad takes are on film reels sitting in some warehouse somewhere? Do we EVER get to see those? They dont even show bad takes on DVD extras unless they are funny. The only thing there will be less of is wasted film. I agree with not deleting takes during the shoot. You never know when even the smallest piece of a shot can bail you out during the edit. Also... storage is so cheap... cheaper than film, so what's the big deal?
 
From the sounds of it, most everyone will be keeping all the footage, then. From an editing point, this is the only choice, and I agree with it. Even when shooting on my D70, I keep every picture and archive it.

I guess the point I was making was just wondering out loud. Since I've seen family members deleting pics like crazy on their digital cams, plus that article regarding pics. Once the tapeless workflow makes it to the consumer level, we'll see more of the deleting video clips.

Sounds like most pros will be keeping everything, then. Interesting, because of how much Panny has been mentioning in their presetations how easy it would be to delete bad takes via the menu.

Cheers!
Scott
 
I thought you were being sarcastic! Really - you're serious? Having the ability to delete footage doesn't mean you'll always get the acting you want. Sometimes it might take so long that you must say - "Good enough - we have to move on.". This camera can't do everything, folks! [I advocate the HVX - I have nothing against it]. And by the way, once the HVX's availability is widespread, P2 will definitely be open for the consumer.

-Greg
 
With my digital SLR I find myself taking far more photos then when I had a role of 24 shots to deal with. Instead of taking the time to decide what is the best setting, composition, etc for the shot, I just take 8 different shots and work out later which one works best (lazy I know, but come on, who hasn't done this at least a little bit). When compact flash cards were $200 for a 128mb card, this was less of a problem, but now with 2+gb cards selling for under a hundred it's become epidemic.

The same thing happens when people move from film to video. But while some talk about P2 bringing people back to a film frame of mind, I see a long term disaster. As the cards get big and storage becomes pennies, I see people just rolling the camera practically non-stop (unlike tape, there is not the added headache of digitizing time). Our 10:1 ratio will go to 40:1 or 50:1. :shocked:

The mantra of "Fix it/work it out in post" is only gonna get worse.
 
wabbit said:
Our 10:1 ratio will go to 40:1 or 50:1. :shocked:

The mantra of "Fix it/work it out in post" is only gonna get worse.
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While that could certainly happen, I don't think it needs to. When we shot our movie, we captured (90%) on a Quickcapture HD unit backed up by the tape in the camera.
We used almost 14 tapes for an 87 minute movie. It's still a lot of footage to go through. The problem with continuous rolling is separating the takes. Ninety percent of the time we were very good about slating and capturing individual clips. On some occasions, however, the camera remained running through a couple of takes. The downside of this is when your naming the clips and you forget you've got multiple takes on a clip. Headache for the editor. No matter how much you CAN take, you're still going to need to see it all to be familiar with it in order to make the best cut. I feel this fact alone should help to limit the amount of tape shot for a narative project. That and the actual time it take to shoot the project. Most of us end up with fairly agressive shooting schedules to begin with. :)
 
gregcotten said:
I thought you were being sarcastic! Really - you're serious? Having the ability to delete footage doesn't mean you'll always get the acting you want. Sometimes it might take so long that you must say - "Good enough - we have to move on.". This camera can't do everything, folks! [I advocate the HVX - I have nothing against it]. And by the way, once the HVX's availability is widespread, P2 will definitely be open for the consumer.

-Greg
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haha. i think you misunderstood him. or read the thread title and nothing else...


i think the guy who started the thread has a genuine point. if i was shooting something, had my P2 card filled up and wanted another take before i finished the slate i would delete some crap from earlier so i could get it shot before i transferred to my HDD and had a cup of tea.
 
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