P2 cards are turning me off

smelni

smelni

Veteran
I was falling in love (or lust) for the hvx but the more i read and think about the p2 workflow the more concerned I get. It seems very closed and proprietery and seems it could have been done better.

First - can firewire handle the datarate for HD - if so then why cant we just record directly to a laptop.

If not, then it seems that they could have come up with a cheaper solution using harddrives and a fast interface. - is the datarate really such that its impossible. Dvrack has an hd module which leads me to believe that its possible to acheive such datarates.

What am i missing? - cause i am falling out of love

seth
 
I love the idea of a tapeless workflow. I would just like to be able to tape more than 10 minutes at a time, but I'm sure that will come in less time than we think.

Matt
 
that is possible if you use a hard drive or laptop or similar - Thats why i am wondering about this P2 thing - unless the datarate for HD is prohibitive then why didnt they come up with a better, cheaper, more available solution?
 
Go dig thru older threads in this HVX section. If you see one with P2 or something negative in the subject line, read that thread. This topic has been discussed more then Monica's dress.
 
I have been searching the boards and panasonics site and i have not found a definitive answer.

Can you record hd footage from the HVX to a laptop via firewire without a P2 card?

Essentially can you have HD footage without having to invest in P2 cards?

thanks
seth
 
P2 cards are not a necesity

P2 cards are not a necesity

I spoke with Jan at Cinegear several weeks ago and she told me face to face that it is possible to record DVCPRO-HD (100mbps) onto a hard drive, but that Panasonic was not going to make a hard drive for the camera.

Other companies were welcome to get in on the act, however.
When I heard this, I got way back into the HVX.

Randy Wedick
Sales
EVS
 
I guess i am not asking my question clearly.

I think i would be easier to forgoe p2 cards, and forgoe tape. Just plug via firewire into a laptop and capture the hd on the hard drive or another hard drive attached to the laptop via usb2 - is this supported?

If so then it is perfect - because i already use dvrack and only use tapes as an archive

thanks to anyone who knows the answer
 
smelni said:
First - can firewire handle the datarate for HD
Click to expand...
Yes.
- if so then why cant we just record directly to a laptop.
Click to expand...
You can.

I keep saying this -- if people don't like P2, don't use it. Use a FireStore or a laptop or something else. There are many ways to use the HVX. Many people may end up never buying a P2 card. However, P2 is going to be the most portable, most durable, and most convenient way to record.

If not, then it seems that they could have come up with a cheaper solution using harddrives and a fast interface.
Click to expand...
They did -- it's called the FireStore, which is being developed for P2.

Dvrack has an hd module which leads me to believe that its possible to acheive such datarates.
Click to expand...
You can -- DV Rack is developing HD Rack for the HVX.

What am i missing? - cause i am falling out of love
Click to expand...
You're missing the hundreds of thousands of posts on this forum where all these issues have already been discussed in depth.

Plus, you're probably missing that you can dub from a P2 card straight to a cheap off-the-shelf hard disk, which lets you use the P2 for what it's good for (reliable indestructible field recording) and the hard disk for what it's good for (plentiful cheap storage) without asking the hard disk to do what it's not good for (reliable, sturdy field recording).
 
smelni said:
I have been searching the boards and panasonics site and i have not found a definitive answer.

Can you record hd footage from the HVX to a laptop via firewire without a P2 card?
Click to expand...
DEFINITIVE ANSWER: YES.

Essentially can you have HD footage without having to invest in P2 cards?
Click to expand...
DEFINITIVE ANSWER: YES.
 
smelni said:
I guess i am not asking my question clearly.

I think i would be easier to forgoe p2 cards, and forgoe tape. Just plug via firewire into a laptop and capture the hd on the hard drive or another hard drive attached to the laptop via usb2 - is this supported?
Click to expand...
YES.

If so then it is perfect - because i already use dvrack and only use tapes as an archive
Click to expand...
Yes it is perfect. Yes you can do what you're asking. Yes you can record HD without ever even seeing a P2 card. Yes yes yes.

The thing you're not getting is that P2 cards are infinitely superior to hard disks in all ways except one: cost per gigabyte. P2 cards are smaller, faster, more durable, more reliable, shockproof, dustproof, heatproof, require no external power, etc.

Hard disks have none of that. The only benefits a hard disk offers is that it's cheaper per gigabyte, and has more gigabytes per unit than a P2 card currently offers. Hard disks are not superior, they're just cheaper.

The great thing about the HVX is that you can choose either, or both.
 
Hey, re-reading my posts, I sound a little testy. Sorry for that. It's just that I thought all these questions had been settled -- we've been discussing this in depth since last February, I thought it was already sorted out and people understood. So to see the same concerns come up again, when they're all resolved and basically a non-event, I guess I got a little impatient. Sorry for that -- gotta remember that not everyone spends as much time on this board as I do!
 
no prob - i completely understand - i spend a ton of time on this board but started reading about 2 months ago - and i swear i looked for this answer first .

This is great news - i guess i have to save 10K for the camera now.

I already have a laptop, harddrives and workflow for a tapeless approach.

thanks for the info Barry
 
smelni said:
This is great news - i guess i have to save 10K for the camera now.

I already have a laptop, harddrives and workflow for a tapeless approach.
Click to expand...

Good news for you, smelni... You don't need $10K. If you're NOT going to use P2 cards and ONLY record to a Laptop and external drives, you only need to save $5999 for the camera. The $10K is a package that includes two 8GB P2 cards.

$5999 = HVX200 by itself. Record HD to laptop via FireWire.
$10K = HVX200 plus two 8GB cards. Record HD to P2 or to laptop, or both.

Just wanted to clarify.
 
Jarred Land said:
I betcha as soon as you guys get used to the P2 thing you will never go back to tape.
Click to expand...

I agree, P2 sounds brilliant.

However, I won't be able to get used to it until I can afford it. I will probably wait for the prices to drop before I move to it. 128GB for a few hundred pounds sounds far more interesting!

P2 also doesn't archive as easily as the newest optical disc systems will. I think that will concern a lot of people.

It all depends how/what you shoot and what your budgets are.
 
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