FS7: Output more than 2 audio channels externally with SDI - possible?

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bigmouthmedia

Active member
I'm only new to the Sony ecosystem and don't have a unit to try this on at the moment....and have a query about outputting 4 channel audio which I know the FS7/ii does.

I know on a Z280 if you output from HDMI that you can only select Audio CH 1/2 or 3/4, but not all or a mix.

However looking at an audio circuit diagram of the Z280, SDI can output all 4 with no selection option.

Has anyone output 3G or higher SDI to an Atomos / Odyssey / PixE and had success getting all 4 channels out?
 
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From memory the PIX-E5 can take additional audio channels straight into it, so why not send the max two over SDI then the extra audio directly into the PIX-E5? If that is doable that is.
 
With most SDI cameras all channels of audio are embedded in the SDI stream. If I want the audio out as either analogue or AES/EBU to an audio mixer or VTR I just use a Blackmagic SDI to Audio mini converter to de-embed the channels. The Z280 brochure does also claim that the camera has audio out on the Integrated Multi/Micro USB jack. That jack on the Sony cameras can normally output over Micro USB cable to composite video and two channels of analogue audio. Channels #1 and 2 if past cameras are any indication.

Chris Young

SDI to Audio.JPG
 
Doug Jensen said:
Maybe nobody has an answer because you are asking a technical question about a camera that isn't even shipping yet.
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Doug, I was hoping someone with an FS7 that also has 4 channels of audio may have tried that in the past. I unfortunately didn't have a chance to test the theory when I had the camera recently (and only have an Atomos Ninja Flame).
 
I think it would be a mistake to assume that the Z280 will have the same SDI output capabilities as the FS7. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but asking people for advice here about a camera that hasn't been released yet seems premature.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I think it would be a mistake to assume that the Z280 will have the same SDI output capabilities as the FS7. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but asking people for advice here about a camera that hasn't been released yet seems premature.
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Gosh, it's more about if it's something that the FS7 is likely to be able to do, I would assume the Z280 can as well, and hoping someone has tried it in the past....without a block diagram of the FS7 handy I can't tell, and without that gear handy, I can't tell. You seem quite antagonistic against everything I post, Doug.
 
Really? I don't understand why you'd say that. I didn't say anything on this thread until you wondered why nobody had an answer for you. I offered what I think is a valid reason why nobody is answering. I don't see why that that would be antagonistic? In the future I will try to avoid getting involved in one of your threads so you don't have to wonder if I'm being antagonistic or not.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Really? I don't understand why you'd say that. I didn't say anything on this thread until you wondered why nobody had an answer for you. I offered what I think is a valid reason why nobody is answering. I don't see why that that would be antagonistic? In the future I will try to avoid getting involved in one of your threads so you don't have to wonder if I'm being antagonistic or not.
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Sorry, it's just the way it's written that comes across incredulous that i'm even asking the question. I'll go down to my local video shop and see if I can replicate it there with an FS7 (and 280 if they have it) - that is my big question so I know what I need to purchase instead of having a $10,000 camera that doesn't do what I hoped it would.
 
I can confirm that with an FS7 you can record 4 channels of the embedded audio as separate channels on an Atomos Samurai. Do it all the time as a backup on the Atomos as I use the Atomos as a producers monitor. Also do the same with the PDW XDCam disc cameras. What you record from the FS7 depends on the channel allocations you have set up in the camera menu. Using the hot shoe on the FS7 along with the Sony UWP-D16 and the hot shoe adapter the Sony SMAD-P3 allows you to record two wireless channels at the same time as two XLR feeds via the camera body. If you want 4 x XLR inputs line/mic switchable use the Sony XLR-K2M XLR Adapter Kit. It works well with the FS7.

As Doug says nobody has confirmed anything on the Z280 as yet but as an educated guess seeing that the Z280 also has the SMAD-P3 listed as an optional accessory it must have a similar hot shoe setup as the FS7. In which case I would imagine overall that the Z280 audio capabilities would be fairly similar in functionality to that outlined above for the FS7. I would be fairly surprised if Sony has dramatically changed its audio philosophy on the Z280. All to be confirmed obviously!

Chris Young

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...odypack_lav_mic_plug_on_eng_package_ch14.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1079814-REG/sony_smad_p3_multi_interface_shoe_adapter.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1078571-REG/sony_xlr_k2m_xlr_box_mi.html
 
cyvideo said:
I can confirm that with an FS7 you can record 4 channels of the embedded audio as separate channels on an Atomos Samurai. Do it all the time as a backup on the Atomos as I use the Atomos as a producers monitor. Also do the same with the PDW XDCam disc cameras. What you record from the FS7 depends on the channel allocations you have set up in the camera menu. Using the hot shoe on the FS7 along with the Sony UWP-D16 and the hot shoe adapter the Sony SMAD-P3 allows you to record two wireless channels at the same time as two XLR feeds via the camera body. If you want 4 x XLR inputs line/mic switchable use the Sony XLR-K2M XLR Adapter Kit. It works well with the FS7.

As Doug says nobody has confirmed anything on the Z280 as yet but as an educated guess seeing that the Z280 also has the SMAD-P3 listed as an optional accessory it must have a similar hot shoe setup as the FS7. In which case I would imagine overall that the Z280 audio capabilities would be fairly similar in functionality to that outlined above for the FS7. I would be fairly surprised if Sony has dramatically changed its audio philosophy on the Z280. All to be confirmed obviously!

Chris Young
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Chris, that's exactly what I was after. I would assume from the SDI audio block diagram I've seen of the Z280 that it has all 4 channels directly out (as opposed to the HDMI 1/2 or 3/4 combo) that if I put SDI out to a compatible recorder, I'd have all 4 discreet channels available to record (same as I would if i went internally on a card). Which leads me to wonder which unit I should look at now ? I'm leaning towards a PixE or Shogun. This is only because I may have situations of taking a desk feed via the XLR's and say a lav mike - and I'm looking at that exact combo for the UWP/SMAD-P3 so I'll be able to record at least 2 lav's in conjunction.
 
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Yes that's how it works on the FS7. Whatever channel assignments you make as to what goes on what channel internally is mirrored on the SDI out. The difference being that with the 280 we will now have 12G SDI which of course allows 4k over SDI which will work very well, or should do, with the Shogun Inferno. As Doug says noting confirmed as yet but i expect to see a similar audio setup on the 280 as we currently see on the FS7 and a number of other cameras. I've gone with Atomos for support reasons as they are local. In your home town of Melbourne of course.

Chris Young
 
Chris, yes admittedly I like atomos because of the Aussie factor and their office is about 30 minutes drive from me! I was looking also at the Ninja V but it doesn't have SDI, the Odyssey has unusual mounting, leaving the PIX-E5 or Shogun ;) I'm also considering the Z190
 
bigmouthmedia said:
Chris, yes admittedly I like atomos because of the Aussie factor and their office is about 30 minutes drive from me! I was looking also at the Ninja V but it doesn't have SDI, the Odyssey has unusual mounting, leaving the PIX-E5 or Shogun ;) I'm also considering the Z190
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I have my fingers crossed they will release a SDI version of the Ninja V, or release an accessory for the Ninja V which will give it an SDI input
 
A word of caution...
Just remember that historically different Sony product lines not only are manufactured in different facilities, but are also designed by different groups of engineers. Different engineers can also mean different feature sets. I usually look at the way the menu system is designed, and (perhaps incorrectly) infer that when the menu design of two cameras is similar, they were also designed by the same engineering group, and thus many of the features will be similar. But I've certainly been wrong in the past, particularly when I've seen certain features I really liked dropped from later models to make room for new features I wasn't as interested in. But that's just me.
So if you're ready to buy an FS7 you know from Chris that it works there. If you're more interested in a Z280 I'd definitely wait until you can test one in person - of course remembering that many features only start showing up in the second firmware release or later.
 
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