Opinions on the BMD 4.6 camera footage?

[VinceinLA]

I agree. Not much effort using NDs when you're prepared. If you're shooting in such a sporadic environment, going in doors and out why not use a video camera with a fixed lens. There's plenty that are more than perfect for documentaries. But for normal shooting, fixed lighting or outside shots the New ursa should be great.

That might be the most ignorant post I have seen this year. You must have no real experience or do wedding videos or something. WTF do you know about MY shoot??

No ND's on a NEW camera built these days is simply not excusable. Case closed. BMD screwed themselves out of 1000's of professional buyers due to this.

 

[VinceinLA]

if you get a heliopan variable nd screw in filter, wear on your belt and throw it on quickly - in transition - just go to f.11 on the f35 or bmd camera as you move outside, then wait for the right moment and throw it on

It's really not that hard.
Maybe you lose 10 seconds of time - but really - it doesn't happen that often.

usually you are outside or inside - and not quickly going in between worlds enough that those 10 seconds matter that much.

I dont know what to think Ed. "Maybe you lose 10 seconds... wait for the right moment"??? Do you have any idea how big of a deal that is sometimes? And wear what on your belt? Are you kidding? I should have to carry some piece of crap around to make my camera work? The same thing that will get lost, crack, cause a weird flare, cross threads, etc etc etc? Go to an "F11" and change my look just because some amateur camera company can't add somthing that all the others ones do? Let me think.... no thanks.

 

[eddavid]

You are a wild one, you. Crazy uncle Vince
Yes I wear lenses on my belt when I shoot doc - and you can have a variable ND in your back pocket that you can through on, etc.
I've been doing it for years.

But who am I?

Who cares.

 

[morgan_moore]

I love Nd onboard- no one seems to realise that they might be hard to make and costly. To me 50% of the price leap from bmc to Fs7 is ND and to me it is worth it

 

[klk]

Been meaning to try this: http://www.xumeadapters.com/ (B&H and Adoram have them)
Precisely for variable ND's as a fast solution BECAUSE as working, union camera ops and dp's we are forced to shoot with every camera/lens combo on the market.
If it works reliably I can slap that VND on in under 5 seconds Ed!

 

[rob norton]

The xumes are a decent workaround, but have their issues. Some threaded filters come loose too easily, which means when adjusting a VND you begin taking it off because it doesn't have enough purchase. I hate step up rings as well.

Also, a while ago I forgot I had a Genustech Eclipse on a lens and it came flying off when I was carrying the tripod/camera (from just the up/down walking, not being bumped).

I'd rather built-in NDs at the expense of size and money if I had the choice though.

 

[yoclay]

I dont know what to think Ed. "Maybe you lose 10 seconds... wait for the right moment"??? Do you have any idea how big of a deal that is sometimes? And wear what on your belt? Are you kidding? I should have to carry some piece of crap around to make my camera work? The same thing that will get lost, crack, cause a weird flare, cross threads, etc etc etc? Go to an "F11" and change my look just because some amateur camera company can't add somthing that all the others ones do? Let me think.... no thanks.

The BM Ursa Mini is not a wedding camera. I don't know about you, but shooting RAW for instance for a wedding seems a bit like overkill to me. It's use is entirely different. It is for more controlled production oriented environments. As such the fact that it lacks built in ND's is not a deal breaker for it's target audience.

 

[CaptainHook]

The base ISO of the 4.6K sensor is currently 800 to be clear. It's the older 4K sensor that has a base of 400. Both sensors will be available for both the URSA and URSA Mini.

 

[yoclay]

The base ISO of the 4.6K sensor is currently 800 to be clear. It's the older 4K sensor that has a base of 400. Both sensors will be available for both the URSA and URSA Mini.

Yes, you are right. Just deleted that. However, that is still not 2000 or 3200 like on the A7S for instance where ND's are imperative and of course not built in either.

The ultimate camera for that kind of situation and of course documentary will unquestionably be the C300 MII. Built in ND's every 2 stops from 2-10 stops. Oh and of course a built in price tag of $16K.

 

[Marino215]

VinceinLA you've reduced yourself enough. Get a clue, pay attention and keep your smart remarks to yourself, you sound like a spoiled brat waiting for Your dad to buy your next camera. Theres hundreds of productions that spend thousands on matteboxs and ND etc. I guess you've never seen a DSLR on a professional shoot. I've seen hundreds of them being used theblast 3 yers mostly 5ds. But you wouldn't know that, a hot shot big wig like yourself. Goofball

 

[Hunterqual]

Whoops, in the URSA 4.6k thread you guys are convincing me I need another old Sony camera.

 

[bill totolo]

Hey, this is an aside from the OP but since it was brought up, has anyone found a vari ND that doesn't suck the color palette out of the image or effect bokeh?

Thanks,

 

[JMtheDP]

If it's that bad then I guess the Red one or Epic must be absolutely unusable then. The AF100 must not have sold at all, same with the C300's and so on. The F35/65 must be completely useless. Give me a break.

I'm going to try and do my best to keep this on-topic. I did say the F3 was one of SONY'S worst designs. The LCD at the back is a total joke, but I find the flip out LCD is useless too. I have been shooting a project for the best part of two years now with a company who bought their own F3 and got a load of the typical aftermarket stuff to go with it. It takes an age to put everything together, and everything adjusts, it is a nightmare. What doesn't help is they didn't buy a viewfinder for the camera and they do nearly all their shots handheld - the flip-out screen is in an impossible place for handheld.

I feel camera design has become something of an underestimated art lately. There is definitely a case to be made for the "modular brick" style of camera, which RED I guess started in the cinema sphere with the EPIC and now ARRI have with the Mini, as Blackmagic have with their Mini. Personally though, I tend to see those kinds of cameras as a specialist option. I prefer to have a more traditionally sized camera. One of the things I love about my F65 (and the F35) was that I have it in the case, nearly completely built (I ship with the matte box on, rods on, and follow focus on). I take it out the case, put on a baseplate, put it on the tripod and stick my lens and battery on, you're basically ready to go. It is very quick and easy, especially as there are no variables because everything is ARRI-standard.

I've never been a fan of Blackmagic's design. I think the Pocket is fine because of the market it is aiming for. The Cinema Camera and 4K are a ludicrous form factor, never understood them. I don't like the URSA either and I do not understand the logic behind the flip-out screen... but then I am not Blackmagic's target audience. I hated the 2.5K and it sold like hotcakes....

 

[combatentropy]

I feel camera design has become something of an underestimated art lately.

Absolutely! And no one really likes the old Blackmagic body styles. They just liked the the picture-quality-per-dollar ratio. See this thread on BMCUser about finally a sensible design for a Blackmagic body (although I'm still interested to see if they can cram everything into a pocket).

Slightly more on topic, does anyone know any more about the difference between the sensor in the Blackmagic 4.6K and the one publicly advertised by Fairchild? I've read a few things here and there that suggest that Blackmagic's is special, but it's unclear how. For example, an anonymous commenter writes, "Fairchild did offer its new Maestro MST4625 exclusive to BlackMagic, which is very similar to LTN4625A for machine vision . . . "

 

[JMtheDP]

I'm not sure you're going to get any company to publicly announce if they are using an off-the-shelf chip.

I think the only company who are fairly transparent (to some extent) about who supplies their chips are Sony - they always like to make a point about being one of the few camera companies who design/manufacture their own chips.

 

[keithlango]

One of the things I love about my F65 (and the F35) was that I have it in the case, nearly completely built (I ship with the matte box on, rods on, and follow focus on). I take it out the case, put on a baseplate, put it on the tripod and stick my lens and battery on, you're basically ready to go. It is very quick and easy, especially as there are no variables because everything is ARRI-standard.

Well, to be fair you can pre-build a workable permutation of just about any camera and keep it that way if you're the only one who has control over its assembly and form factor. The problem you state with the F3 in your instance isn't the design so much as the need to build it up and tear it down on a regular basis and the lack of ability to force the owner to get the right bits and bobs to make it workable. Mind you, I'm not arguing that the F3 isn't a dog-mutt form factor- it most definitely is, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the F35/65 are ergonomic manifestations of Valhalla, either.

 

[eddavid]

I think the Arri 416 and 435 and now the Amira are really beautifully made cameras that feel right.
All the rest are kind of ergonomically bizarre - but that's okay - we can all make due with their flaws and find their strengths.

For heaven's the C300 was my favorite ergonomic mess -a top heavy camera with a weird LCD placement - and it was billed at 20k or so for documentary work - that was amazingballs.

I think Arri coming in to make digital cameras is good to teach all the other people how to make a camera well. They are definitely one of the best at that.

 

[Steven Abrams]

No ND's on a NEW camera built these days is simply not excusable. Case closed. BMD screwed themselves out of 1000's of professional buyers due to this.

I think those "buyers" would find something else to complain about. It's what they do. Like, why can't they use their B4 lenses that have full servo control etc? Oh no, Blackmagic just lost 1000's of buyers there too. Don't think they care. They released what they could at NAB with the time/resources they had, and will improve it all again next NAB. You can basically bank on that.

I mean when a company releases 38 new products at NAB, it's astounding. The industrial design team alone must be slaughtered, let alone the engineers and everyone else. The URSA Mini is everything they could do at this price in the time they had to do it. Think about it, URSA started shipping what, August/Sept last year? 6-7 Months just for the new cameras/sensors announced (URSA 4.6K, URSA Mini, EVF, Micro Cinema/Studio, Video Assist) just isn't matched by any other company in terms of pace of development. Let alone the other 30 products or so they do.

The pattern is obvious too. They progressively iterate. Each year is an improvement on the last and generally a shake up in someway. Switchable global/rolling shutter? Name another camera that does that, at ANY price. 15 stops, 4.6K RAW at 60fps (or 100fps for the big URSA) and all flavours of ProRes is a bargain, even if the DR isn't quite there. And with the way BMD operate, you know that next year or the year after they'll have something with built in NDs. They've been making cameras how long? Each camera they work out something new, then all new cameras benefit from it. I have no doubt they'll get there, just look where its come already.

I mean to complain about ND's grossly misses the point. What they've done is spectacular for a company so new to cameras, and should be encouraged because it's just gonna get better.

 

[yoclay]

I'm going to try and do my best to keep this on-topic. I did say the F3 was one of SONY'S worst designs. The LCD at the back is a total joke, but I find the flip out LCD is useless too. I have been shooting a project for the best part of two years now with a company who bought their own F3 and got a load of the typical aftermarket stuff to go with it. It takes an age to put everything together, and everything adjusts, it is a nightmare. What doesn't help is they didn't buy a viewfinder for the camera and they do nearly all their shots handheld - the flip-out screen is in an impossible place for handheld.

I feel camera design has become something of an underestimated art lately. There is definitely a case to be made for the "modular brick" style of camera, which RED I guess started in the cinema sphere with the EPIC and now ARRI have with the Mini, as Blackmagic have with their Mini. Personally though, I tend to see those kinds of cameras as a specialist option. I prefer to have a more traditionally sized camera. One of the things I love about my F65 (and the F35) was that I have it in the case, nearly completely built (I ship with the matte box on, rods on, and follow focus on). I take it out the case, put on a baseplate, put it on the tripod and stick my lens and battery on, you're basically ready to go. It is very quick and easy, especially as there are no variables because everything is ARRI-standard.

I've never been a fan of Blackmagic's design. I think the Pocket is fine because of the market it is aiming for. The Cinema Camera and 4K are a ludicrous form factor, never understood them. I don't like the URSA either and I do not understand the logic behind the flip-out screen... but then I am not Blackmagic's target audience. I hated the 2.5K and it sold like hotcakes....

It may be an ergonomic ugly duckling, but I gotta say that that I still prefer the image out of the F3 than a lot of newer cameras. More organic, less electronic than even the F5/55 which came after. Somehow they got the balance right image wise (with SLOG). Resolution isn't everything. Also that little center square percentage readout is perfect for finding grey at 38% in SLOG. Silly that they didn't put this on their later models.

Also, all I had to do is put a Berkey top plate on the camera and I haven't had to do any great build up/breakdowns of the camera. It just works. The rear evf is useless, so I too it off, but frankly the camera is quite light and I see that as a defiinite plus compared to many others with a traditional camcorder form factor.

As bad as the ergonomics/construction was of the F3, it still is light years ahead of Blackmagics first cameras and most DSLR's for shooting video for that matter. Honestly, I think the URSA mini is a step forward for BM. It's not rocket science, but it is acceptable. End of the day though, it's the quality of the image that matters. Lots of claims of 15 stops DR out there now, we will see the truth soon.

 

[JMtheDP]

It is true that there are better and worse F3 setups, and I was using one of the worse ones. It reminded me a lot of the early days of the RED ONE - when the people buying them did not have any money beyond the $17,500 it took to buy one, so they cobbled the rest of the kit together.

The F5/F55 at least seem to have been built to be a part of a modular system (as has the EPIC et al).

The price range that Blackmagic are selling at, I think a lot of their customers would still buy it even if they said one in ten of the cameras was laced with Cyanide - their business model is "BIG IMPORTANT SOUNDING NUMBER, TINY PRICE, SELL SELL SELL" and later everyone complains a bit, but they've sold them all already so they don't care. When you're talking about five figure plus investments, they need to fulfill many, many different criteria - not least those cameras are more likely to be rented, where Blackmagic stuff is more likely to be owned.