AC160 Opening Number Noelle Hannibal's "Ghosts of Broadway", Le Balcon, Old Montreal

My buddy Walter has a tough skin and is always ready to learn. You definately need a feed from the desk for something like this...the inconsiderate audience are clinking and clunking around you so your Rode on the camera is picking up all the clutter.

I find that single cam shoots on something like this are tough to do well...The answer, of course, is to film it at the dress rehearsal and ask her nicely to do her number twice, on the second take you can add in some good closeups of her and maybe the pianist??? Then on the live night shoot some audience cutaways and you will have an effective multicam shoot!!

I'm sure Mike will have a lot of better ideas too!!!

Chris
 
Sure, I would welcome a critique of this.

The recording was done at 720/24p.

I did take a feed from the desk, I will isolate one channel and see what the effect is.

I have always had trouble with XLR feeds. Even at -40 DB, the signal needs the volume to be almost at zero on the dial and if you crank it up a couple of notches, you get red lining.

My Rode Mic can stand to have the dial at around 50% at -50 db
 
Here is the same thing again, Left Channel Only. Sounds better to me.

This channel comes on line a bit late but I can fix that but starting with Right, then shifting to Left.

I am very anxious to hear if anyone has sensitivity issues with sound board feeds. I have the same issue with a Manfrotto remote where you can hardly use it to set focus (if you are at 45 and want to go to 50, one tiny displacement takes you to 55, then back to below 50 - it's far too sensitive)


NoelleOpeningcHL.wmv


edit . . .

Here is the re-post of the two videos


NoelleOpeningChLbest.wmv
http://youtu.be/dpPYsg1r60w

Noelle01_02ChRbest.wmv
http://youtu.be/e2Zo8pD9wEQ
 
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kwkeirstead said:
Sure, I would welcome a critique of this.
Click to expand...

As Chris says, shooting performances like this are tough with a single camera. Ideally, shoot at a rehearsal so you can get a couple of runs through the song, but I know that is often not possible. So what you do is refame the camera periodically. If you are able to do a creep zoom, then you will be able to get away with that technique a couple of times. Start wide and creep into a medium shot over about 15 to 25 seconds. Other than that, reframe as quickly as possible, knowing that you will use a cutaway to cover the join. Don't shoot any cutaways during the performance, but find them just before or after. Some of the cliche shots that would have worked here are a close up of the candle holder, one of the blue lights or any other objects around the singer. Switch to manual focus and zoom in. If you are confident you can hit the right focus point first pop, then take the lens right out of focus and bring it back in over about 3 seconds. If you find that too difficult, then do it the other way (start in focus and smoothly defocus over 3 seconds) and reverse the playback in post. Or not. Starting in focus and going out works too, especially if you use a dissolve during the out of focus section.

Another possible cutaway, if she was performing another song in the same position that you weren't going to be using is a tilt up her dress. Just make sure that during editing you are away from the shot before her face is visible and you can tell the sync is not right.

The main thing is to look around and find as many cutaways as you can just before and after the performance. At a pinch you can use a cutaway twice, but no more unless you're really desperate. People can tell.

Also, grab a couple of audience shots as long as something is happening to keep their attention all focused toward the stage. Don't increase your exposure too much, the audience shots should be darker.

To the audio; the audience noises are very distracting and the overall volume should be higher. That may entail using a compressor in post. I'll look at your second edit later. (edit: the second video is missing)

I have always had trouble with XLR feeds. Even at -40 DB, the signal needs the volume to be almost at zero on the dial and if you crank it up a couple of notches, you get red lining.
Click to expand...

Get yourself a couple of 20dB pads and short extension XLR leads.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/351406-REG/Whirlwind_IMPAD20_IMPAD20_In_Line_XLR.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Length_1'&ci=4174&N=4289288133+4288607254

If you need to record stereo from a desk you can use one on each channel, and if recording only one channel you can put them both in line if you need more attenuation.
 
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Mike... Thank you for the suggestions. I will back upload the recording with the XLR, plus a new one.

On the XRL feed, I will definitely try the 10db reduction.

If it makes any difference, I had expected a line signal from the board but they gave me a mic signal. The sound guy complained about the board - I asked him a couple of times to adjust the signal level and he responded there was only one master volume level for everything at the board.

edit: re-posting, without the crowd noise http://youtu.be/dpPYsg1r60w
 
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It's quite common for live mixing desks to only have one master control and you just have to do the best you can with what you're given. Larger video productions will usually bring their own mixer and multichannel breakout box (and someone to operate it). The main problem is that a good sounding mix for a venue is almost always not ideal for recording. The reason is that generally on stage instrument amplifiers and drums etc. will contribute to the sound heard in the room, but not the recording.

Some sound pointers:

1/ Regardless of what the venue sound guy says he's sending you, always make your own decision based on what level you're seeing. Don't worry about mic and line impedance. That hasn't been relevant for low level audio since we stopped using vacuum tubes. As long as your input impedance is higher than the output impedance, you're right to go. In the case of something like a modern video camera it's all about levels. Just make sure you don't have phantom power switched on unless you know it's required.

This is what I'd do:
Ask for an audio feed from the desk. Set the camera to line level, lower the audio level controls to minimum and plug it in. Raise the audio level until you have a decent signal level. If you get to the max on the input level control and still don't have enough level, lower the level control(s) again and switch to mic level (at -40dB). Then raise the levels again. Only go to the higher gain settings (-50dB/-60dB) if you really need to. It shouldn't be necessary with any properly setup sound mixer.

The thing is; line and mic levels can vary drastically. A mic level might be nominally -50dB, but can easily vary 10dB above or 30dB below that. Line level is more complicated. There are actually 2 standards with differing levels. You can't just go by the numbers and expect it to work much of the time. Frustrating from an engineer's perspective, I know. But that's why there is such a large range of control.

2/ It's always best to avoid setting level controls close to minimum or maximum setting. The closer you can get the the default level setting and get a good level, the better the quality will be. The default setting is usually between 50% and 80% of the control's range and usually has some sort of marking. On the AC160 it looks like the default is 50%.

3/ Don't worry about being slightly low on the meters, especially if you're recording PCM sound. 10dB low can be boosted in post without serious noise being introduced, but going even slightly over will introduce terrible distortion. I'm against using ALC or limiting for music unless there is absolutely no other option.

4/ If you are connecting your camera to any other equipment that may be grounded, use a DI (direct injection) box for the audio. What these do is isolate the ground between the source and your camera to prevent ground loops. It's possible that just by connecting your camera you could introduce a hum into the house speakers. This will commonly happen if you run the camera from mains power, or if you have a monitor connected that's plugged into power. Most venues will have some DI boxes, and you may be able to borrow one or 2 of them, but if I was filming concerts I'd buy a couple of my own.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

5/ Record the live sound on another channel or an external recorder. But if you do this, the mic needs to be positioned where it will get a good representation of the room sound and not pick up extraneous noises of people or equipment. This is usually required anyway to get sound of audience response if nothing else.
 
I'm sure you had no control over it, but her mic desperately needed a better pop filter. She also needed to control her contact with the microphone and stand to minimize handling noises. Working a little farther away and perhaps at an off angle to the mic might have helped here. These are tricks that a performer learns with experience.

The lighting and exposure looked good, and her singing was excellent. What is the intended use of this footage?

- Greg
 
Thanks, Greg, for looking at this.

This is just an event archive recording.

Parts of it could find their way into promo clips at her web site. This person is a friend of my wife who sings in amateur theatre productions.
 
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