One Year Later: C300 & Scarlet

J

joshsgibson

Member
It's been over a year since November 3rd 2011. The day both the Canon C300 and the RED Scarlet were announced.

I'm curious to hear the response from owners that purchased one of these cameras (or both). Were you undecided on what camera to buy? Which camera did you purchase? How was your first month with the camera? How did your work flow change? Are you happy with your decision? Any regrets?

If you had to make the same choice today would you still consider the C300 or the Scarlet? Which one and why? A year later, do you feel your camera is outdated? Are you looking at different cameras?

Obviously, I'm expecting more responses from C300 owners here since this is the C300 Section. Nonetheless, thank you in advance for any amount you share! :happy:
 
I was just reflecting on this myself. I was at the November 3rd event last year, saw the C300 on the big screen at Paramount. After that I knew resolution wouldn't be an issue.

I picked up my C300 at the start of the summer and have shot an indie feature, footage for broadcast, doc footage, greenscreen, concerts and spec work. So many great things about the camera: size, workflow, image. I'm constantly surprised at the amount detail in the shadows.

I haven't "needed" it, but I do wish that the camera had a dual HD/SDI for 12bit out option like the C500. I would have more use for a 2k/12bit/444 than 4k, would certainly lengthen the life of the camera in the production world. That desire aside, I haven't seen a camera on the market that has the same image qaulity and ease of use that my C300 has. I've shot a handful of gigs with the C300 side by side with the Scarlet and had the producers ask the colorist to get the Scarlet to match the skin tones of the C300 (not sure if that was acheived).

My guess is the C300 will stay relevant to narrative jobs as long as productions are using the HD Alexa. After that it'll likely be "The Documentary Camera" to use for several years.


In short, I would buy the camera again, but I am jealous of the 12bit output of the C500, though for and extra 10k I'll live with the 8bit!
 
We bought the Scarlet and later the C300. In my opinion, they are 2 completely different cameras. I'm finding we use the C300 much more often now than the Red (we actually upgraded to an Epic). Unless the client requests Red, we're shooting the 300. Not that the Red is difficult to edit, I'm finding most of our clients really just don't care what we shoot on and if it's up to me personally, the 300 is an easier workflow with a quite beautiful image right out of the camera. Not to mention, 3 batteries and 4 32GB cards last for a long, full days shoot. Data wrangling on the Red can become a headache. The only thing I miss on the 300 is RAW but c-log goes a long way. Like everyone else, I'd love to get 1080 at 60fps. I think that would go a long way to making it a much more useable camera. Just my .02.
 
Thanks Joe! Yeah, I'm aware that the two cameras are in a league of their own. I'm more interested to see how each camera has fared over the last year with shooters.

It sounds like you getting your moneys worth with the Canon! Is that a correct evaluation? Do you feel the C300 paid itself off before the Scarlet/Epic (obviously the Scarlet/Epic is bigger price tag)?
 
I was one who eagerly awaited the Canon C300 and fully expected to buy one. However when the C300 wasn't 4k (as it was rumored to be) and when I learned it was only 8 bit I was disappointed Once Scarlet was announced only hours later I ordered one.

A year later and I'm pretty happy with my decision.

I think both are great cameras and I think the C300 is a better choice for a lot of people, but for me and what I focus on (low budget features) the Scarlet it tough to beat.

Here are some of the things I don't like about the Scarlet:

It's awfully heavy.
I wish it were more light sensitive like the C300.
RED accessories are spendy.
It's power hungry compared to the C300.


These are the things that I have grown to love about the Scarlet:

Built quality! The RED is built like a tank. I love that about it.
Interchangeable Lens Mounts! This was one of the huge factors that made my decision toward Scarlet an easy one for me.
RAW! What can I say, once you get a taste for it it's hard to go back.

I have to also say that in the past year I have been transformed into a RED Fanboy. It's crazy cause I used to make fun of the RED faithful for being kinda a cult but after a year I'm totally on board. I think some of the reasons people get fanboyish about RED is becuase of how they treat their customers. Free firmware updates that add significantly to the value of the camera, Sensor upgrades, cool new lens mounts, fun stuff to come, etc.

I honestly think that RED is going to really pull away in the next year with their Dragon sensor, the highly anticipated Prores proxy module, and the REDmote Pro. I'm totally speculating here but if you read between the lines on what Jim and Jarred post I expect great things from RED in the future. Also, I love that they are aggressive at being competitive in general. How many other companies would do what they have done on so many fronts? The latest Epic price cuts are amazing. I also love that Jim and Jarred post regularly on reduser and they seem to actually listen.

Bottom line, I am very happy with my decision to go RED. Also, I feel that the areas where the C300 outshine the Scarlet are areas that RED will improve on very soon. There are plenty of shoots where I wish I had the C300 vs the Scarlet but in a year I highly doubt that will be the case. In two years I bet C300 will be worth a lot less than a comparable RED.

Just my $0.02
 
Michael Sutton wrote on Wide Open Camera that the "...Alexa and the C300 camera are the most popular cameras renting in the US and most of the world."

This isn't the first time I've seen the Alexa and C300 being referred to as the most popular rental house cameras.

J Davis said:
add to that a question for rental houses - which one earns more !!!!
Click to expand...
 
Also from a rental house perspective(talking to my competitors--we don't have RED cameras), the RED models require more effort from a standpoint of updates, prep time, client education--both shooting and workflow, data management in the field.

We have clients who can barely deal with low bit rate codecs, data wrangling and post wise, so the idea of RED workflow can be pretty daunting for all involved in a rental environment.

C300 uses HALF the power of a Sony F3, much less Scarlet or EPIC or Arri Alexa. It's an easy camera to teach people how to use quickly, especially if they're already familiar with Sony EX1 menu structure. It's just a rental friendly and post friendly camera and you have to work hard to get a bad image out of it!
 
Dino said:
It's an easy camera to teach people how to use quickly, especially if they're already familiar with Sony EX1 menu structure. It's just a rental friendly and post friendly camera and you have to work hard to get a bad image out of it!
Click to expand...

I like that Canon have an online menu simulator to get familiar with the camera before it is in your hands which for rentals is very valuable. Maybe other cams have that but I really don't know.
 
Hi Josh,
As far as the C300 paying for itself, absolutely. If you have the budget and more importantly time, the Red gives you a whole lot of latitude in post. We do a lot of broadcast and for many of our clients, there isn't the luxury of delivery time. During this political season, the 300 was out almost every day and there's no way we could have turned those jobs out with the Red. But as I said earlier, 2 different tools for different client demands. I do think that many people feel that if they buy a Red, the work will automatically come in due to ownership. I think that's why a there's a whole lot of unhappy people on RedUser now with the massive price drop. Tech is changing so rapidly now that any camera will loose value quickly if it's not out working. On another note, nice work on your site.
 
I think that you'll find the majority of people who purchased a Scarlet or C300 are happy with their decision. Beginning at the price point they both come in at, most people make informed decisions about purchasing depending on workflow and production needs, and that kind of smart thinking leads to decisions you probably won't regret. However, regardless of which camera is more a 'hot rental,' you shouldn't buy one on the hopes of making your money back via rentals. Your skills will be what people hire you on, not what camera you own - well, at least speaking of the clients that actually pay decent rates and on time.

Buy a camera if your existing and projected target clientele need what that camera offers, not because you think work will ring after you buy a new toy. Trust me, it won't
 
Different people have different needs. That being said I think the C300 is a lot more versatile. It can be used for feature production and it can be used for run and gun/documentary work. There is a videographer that we hire from time to time who purchased a Scarlet. It completely doesn't match our workflow and needs. So we never hire him to shoot on it. I think there is a problem in this industry with aspirations being larger than reality. Similar to what Cowpoke said, I think one has to take stock of which camera will fulfill you needs for day to day, bread and butter work rather than the work you hope to do a year down the road.
 
I went with the Scarlet because, to me, it offered more for a similar amount of money.

With the money I made I traded it for an Epic.

ETA, I love the look the C300 gives.
 
I think it is better to treat the rental part as incidental. So if it comes then fine. Else, no tears. Many people have burnt their fingers as they had hoped for steady income from rental.
If a person has existing clientele then it is fine. If a person is hoping to break into the league, then he has to use the toy to showcase work for pitching to clients. Mere mention of a name of a toy in CV doesn't help.

I haven't seen anyone who has bought a C300 just because of gear lust. I feel that is very important for its reputation as well.

cowpunk52 said:
Buy a camera if your existing and projected target clientele need what that camera offers, not because you think work will ring after you buy a new toy. Trust me, it won't
Click to expand...
 
This thread is a huge win for not spinning into something ugly. Refreshing!

I bought a Scarlet and have used it for pretty much everything over the past year from stripped down DSLR style with L glass in the pit of a concert to fully rigged up cinestyle for films and it is flawless throughout. I would make the same decision today as I did last year. The biggest thing? Raw - hands down the way I will always work if offered the choice from here on out. The workflow is just wonderful. That said, when I am not posting my own stuff, the editors I work with "get it" and treat the footage right.

Everything about it is more expensive. The batts, the media, the computer to muscle the footage around, the DIT that is wonderful to have pretty much all the time. I look longingly at a system where batts last for half a day and weigh next to nothing.

But the tank-like nature of the thing, the touch LCD, the resolution, the company. I love that it was designed, manufactured, and built/assembled in the United States. I love the company behind the product. I love the personal nature of the support, how my rep knows me and does whatever he can to help if I need a $100 or a $10,000 order in my hands like, tomorrow. I love that because it is cheeper for them to make and they have passed that on, I can now afford the same camera the Hobbit or Prometheus or many other films are being shot on. I love that I am the limitation now.

Both are great cameras, and I think you will find that those who are buying at least this much of a camera system can appreciate the ups and downs of both. Because they both do have ups and downs.
 
+1 Big time!

Especially that first sentence.

Bottom line it that they are both great cameras. Just different. Both have strengths and weaknesses.



William_Robinette said:
This thread is a huge win for not spinning into something ugly. Refreshing!

I bought a Scarlet and have used it for pretty much everything over the past year from stripped down DSLR style with L glass in the pit of a concert to fully rigged up cinestyle for films and it is flawless throughout. I would make the same decision today as I did last year. The biggest thing? Raw - hands down the way I will always work if offered the choice from here on out. The workflow is just wonderful. That said, when I am not posting my own stuff, the editors I work with "get it" and treat the footage right.

Everything about it is more expensive. The batts, the media, the computer to muscle the footage around, the DIT that is wonderful to have pretty much all the time. I look longingly at a system where batts last for half a day and weigh next to nothing.

But the tank-like nature of the thing, the touch LCD, the resolution, the company. I love that it was designed, manufactured, and built/assembled in the United States. I love the company behind the product. I love the personal nature of the support, how my rep knows me and does whatever he can to help if I need a $100 or a $10,000 order in my hands like, tomorrow. I love that because it is cheeper for them to make and they have passed that on, I can now afford the same camera the Hobbit or Prometheus or many other films are being shot on. I love that I am the limitation now.

Both are great cameras, and I think you will find that those who are buying at least this much of a camera system can appreciate the ups and downs of both. Because they both do have ups and downs.
Click to expand...
 
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