On location music video with NEX7 + Rode videomic PRO

rawfa

rawfa

Veteran
Guys,

As a favor for a friend who is a piano player and a singer, I will shoot her playing the piano and singing. She doesn´t have any recordings, so we cannot shoot playback like I would when normally shooting a music video. The sound that will be used will actually be the live sound from all the different takes from differet angles.
The shooting will be in a living room where the piano is. What tips do you have sound wise for the NEX7 with the Rode videomic PRO? What settings should I use?

I´d specially like to know what DB should I set the Rode videomic PRO to to capture the live voice and piano sound (taking in consideration it´ll be recorded in a living room).
 
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rawfa said:
There is no way around it and it´s just a favor.
I'd really like to know more about audio concerns though.
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If the mic is at the camera, the sound perspective will change from take to take as the camera position changes. You'll need to get the mic away from the camera, on a stand and in the same place for all the takes. You'll get your best results if you can use multiple camera so all your angles are captured simultaneoulsy in a single take. Use the sound from your establishing shot under all the cuts. In other words, one sound track and multiple picture tracks, all from the same take. That way the sound is one continuous performance the way it would be if you were shooting to playback.
 
rawfa said:
How about DB? What should I set it to on the mic?
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That depends on the mic placement and the loudness of the source. There is no standard settings where you can say "in all cases of situation X use setting Y" any more than you can say "for a portrait of a soccer player always shoot at 1/250 and f/4." Rode suggest starting with a minimum level setting in the camera and a +20 on the mic. If that results in too hot a recording, reduce the mic to 0dB and try again. If it's still too hot, reduce the mic to -10 and try again. You want adequate levels recorded with the least amount of amplification contributed by the camera's own (usually noisy) preamps.
 
The problem with the NEX7 is that it doesn´t have a proper tool to monitor the audio levels. I will have to make some tests to simulate the environment, but the live piano sound will be harder to simulate.
 
rawfa said:
The problem with the NEX7 is that it doesn´t have a proper tool to monitor the audio levels. I will have to make some tests to simulate the environment, but the live piano sound will be harder to simulate.
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Why simulate it? There's nothing unusual about a sound check on location before you shoot. So what if it takes 30 minutes to get set up, what's the big deal? You're going to be there for hours shooting multiple takes anyway. If you're doing this as a favour to the performer they can at least cooperate with you in doing whatever it takes to do it right.
 
Steve House said:
Why simulate it? There's nothing unusual about a sound check on location before you shoot. So what if it takes 15 minutes to get set up, what's the big deal? You're going to be there for hours shooting multiple takes anyway. If you're doing this as a favour to the performer they can at least cooperate with you in doing whatever it takes to do it right.
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You´re right. I just want to be prepared in advance, even if I have to recheck things on location.
 
Perhaps this is a crazy thought, but... why not set up to record the audio first? Dump the file into a computer, hook up to some speakers, and you have playback for all the video takes. Plus, you don't have to worry about continuity of sound between takes and camera angles.
 
You have just 1 external mic right? And it's a shotgun to be used in a living room right? All that could make a big challenge to anyone in killing the echoes and in dealing with a big source of sound. Though the mic can always capture what it hears to produce a live recording, the quality is questionable. If I were you, I would record audio separately to get one audio track for the piano playing, one audio track for the singing. For such a video, if audio is not done right, nothing else will shine. And for a video, once the audio part is done satisfactorily, the rest is just to capture the visual. You already know that, and it is relatively easy, nothing like a challenge: just be creative and try to get more interesting shots and the shooting part is over. As for the correct audio setting, I believe it can only be determined after you have tested different settings on location. Good luck.
 
This may sound like a clunky solution, but it doesn't sound like you have many options with your setup. Why not get a long mic cable and put the Rode mic on a stand by the piano. That way the mic is always stationary and you can move the camera to get different angles of the musician and audience without the sound changing. You won't be that mobile with the cord dragging but you can move some and even pan and tilt. Not sure what the sound quality will be like with a long unbalanced line but it might not be too noticeable since the room will be pretty loud. Just make sure that you gaff the line near the mic, midway down the line and near the camera so you don't accidentally unplug or stress the mini jack port, which can make noise. Get some b-roll of her playing and close up shots of her fingerwork for editing.
 
Alex H. said:
Perhaps this is a crazy thought, but... why not set up to record the audio first? Dump the file into a computer, hook up to some speakers, and you have playback for all the video takes. Plus, you don't have to worry about continuity of sound between takes and camera angles.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Why make editing the takes together harder than they need to be? If the singer is performing to the "master track", then it will be far more possible to cut the various takes together.
 
Guys, it´s time to resurrect this thread. Since then I´ve got an H4N and a NTG3. I´ve got a mic stand and a long XLR cable and I´m planing to leave it over the piano pointing the singers face. Here are my audio noob doubts:
- Should I be concerned that the vibration from the piano will somehow interfere?
- By default DB is set at zero. Since I will be working with loud sounds should I decrease the DB values?
- When I look at the sound meter on the H4N where should the bars be while recording?

Any other tips will be welcome too.
 
I see you got the recorder and mic workign well together, good.

1 YES it depends on mounting ( this is the wrong type of mic for this scenario)

2 there are no preset rules it depends on a lot of things.

3 I would sugest averaging around -10 to give yourself some headroom when things get loud, main thing here is to NOT let it peak.

might want to consider using blankets to deaden the room you will be in as much as you can that is out of camera shot, and moving the mic back a little so it can pick up all the music better rather than just colored bleed . alsom might want to try out using the built in mics as well , experiment. and have fun.

Good luck
 
Thanks for the advice.
Where should the bar on the sound meter be for me to know the audio is ok?
Also, can anyone tell me how to turn on the feature that cancels DSLRs auto audio gain?
 
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3/4's of the way should be ok. the higher you go the harder the converters will have to work.

the best thing to do for a shoot like this is to ask your friend to practice while you get set up. this way you can record the practice and you get an idea of what she's playing and how loud.

what to set the recorder to depends greatly on what she's playing, how loud and the room. classical is incredibly dynamic for example so it can go from whisper quiet to eardrum shattering in the space of a note. set your gain too high or too low and you'll either clip or not hear anything.

so while your friend is practicing you can find a decent level,... ask her to play the softest part and the loudest part so you can check.

the other thing will be placement,... is she asking for a close tight sound? if so place the mic closer to the piano and pull the gain down. is she asking for a live setting type of sound? place the mic a couple of meters away from the piano,... or walk around the room while she plays to find where it sounds the best.

one last bit of advice,... if the room is really echoy and horrible sounding,... and you have no other choice, the best way to get rid of the room sound in a pinch,... place the mic real close to the piano and push the gain of the recorder all teh way down,... the closeness should make it loud enough and the room sound too low to hear.

recording audio, and live acoustic audio at that is just as complicated as doing video and is an art in itself so dont worry if you dont get really good sound,... quality depends more on the room in which you're recording, the artist and your mic technique( not mic, but technique) before you even switch on your recorder.

good luck!
 
Bruker, that is very useful advice. I was already planning to make some audio tests on location before starting to shoot, but you´ve posted a lot of good stuff.
She will play classical and I´m looking for a tight sound in a moderately big room. So, you´re saying I should set DB to -48 (as low as the H4N goes) and then up recording volume until I get the sound bar on the sound meter where I want it?
Also, where should the sound bar be when it´s at it´s lowest (say a person speaking normally) and where should it be at it´s highest (say a person screaming)?
 
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