On a $500k to $700k budget - film or HD?

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

We shoot on average 1800 pictures at a wedding. We just delete the blurry ones.

I'll tell you something else, while I'm not saying my movie work is awesome. I get more flack from the Homebase than I do from other people.

Problem is, when you only have so much light and the camera can't "see" anymore so you're a a half a stop dark, I mean com'n. I'm at my potential, but the equipment's not! LOL

I'll be putting my short up for public derision in a couple of weeks. I did it as part of a film production class I'm taking at a locak junior college. But one of the first comments made on the home front, was 'you know better than that'... in regard to a clip that was not well lit... it was the part of the clip before the clacker, 'action', or even the lights being turned on...

I'll see how the annonymous public views it... it is much easier to take criticism from that direction...

As a note, my experience with this class really was disappointing. For all the interest that I had presumed that the low end cameras, the Internet hosting, etc. seems to have engendered... the collection of students really has not impressed me... the enthusiasm level of these 'teens and 20's somethings' is phenomenal... in the negative sense... I can comprehend a lack luster attitude about say, a required biology course, a 'got to take a college algebra' course... but in the area of 'media', given the hotness of the area... getting a few people together to crew my project (and I got a crew of 2 because those people couldn't get others to show up or even respond to e-mails for their projects...), was like pulling teeth... and event the 2 that signed on to my project, it has been sort of like hurding cats...

Back in the olden days, when I was young, the only reason why I didn't get into film was the expense of stock and processing. And Video... ugh... and further ugh with video editing... but of my friends in theater... they seem to always be able to get a production up and running... perhaps I shouldn't have been such a snob and gotten in to porn... hand cranked Bolex... cheesy italian style porn voice over... and just 'made money'...

 

[jls4]

perhaps I shouldn't have been such a snob and gotten in to porn... hand cranked Bolex... cheesy italian style porn voice over... and just 'made money'...

Funny, I've always not understood why more people haven't done it. If it weren't for my faith, I probably would have. But interesting enough, I've heard that p0rn doesn't pay that much more than the avg indie flick. The only thing is it's quicker to produce.

Someone on REDUser actually used a RED to shoot one. And had a trailer on the site. I didn't check it out, but thought it was hilarious that someone would buy a $25K+ (fully complete workable system) camera to see T&A in 4K. I mean sheesh I saw a movie a while back and almost fell out laughing. It was on Cinemax and it was a Lord of the Rings knockoff with strippers all through it. They'd have a scene that was so hilariously stupid then you'd see a naked woman dancing on a table. You could tell it was shot with an XL-1 mini-DV. Everything I watched in the 10 minutes of me viewing, said this movie sucked. Yet, there it was on TV. But the main thing is, I think those that care about that type of stuff could care less about what type of camera it was shot on.

But I guess if someone was a "pro" at that type of movie they may one day want to be the Speilburg of their craft. LOL

 

[ChipG]

Funny, I've always not understood why more people haven't done it. If it weren't for my faith, I probably would have. But interesting enough, I've heard that p0rn doesn't pay that much more than the avg indie flick. The only thing is it's quicker to produce.

Someone on REDUser actually used a RED to shoot one. And had a trailer on the site. I didn't check it out, but thought it was hilarious that someone would buy a $25K+ (fully complete workable system) camera to see T&A in 4K. I mean sheesh I saw a movie a while back and almost fell out laughing. It was on Cinemax and it was a Lord of the Rings knockoff with strippers all through it. They'd have a scene that was so hilariously stupid then you'd see a naked woman dancing on a table. You could tell it was shot with an XL-1 mini-DV. Everything I watched in the 10 minutes of me viewing, said this movie sucked. Yet, there it was on TV. But the main thing is, I think those that care about that type of stuff could care less about what type of camera it was shot on.

But I guess if someone was a "pro" at that type of movie they may one day want to be the Speilburg of their craft. LOL

LOL, I watched the Red porn trailer. DON'T EVER make a porn with a Red, it shows everything in too much detail, it's way too good of a camera for that.
They should have put about 10 promist filters on it. I thouht a dvx100 would have looked better for those types of movies.

 

[Mickey Munday]

Adam over in the Corrado thread is fourgoing the festival route and sent his movie directly to 5 or 10 distributors / sales agents.

He'll have a deal without going the festival route, no need to waste the money.

ya i've been following that thread for info too. lotta good tips. do you just query the distribs or is there a better way to get the film in the hands of people with real influence?

 

[jls4]

ya i've been following that thread for info too. lotta good tips. do you just query the distribs or is there a better way to get the film in the hands of people with real influence?

Good Q - I'd like to know that too.

 

[ChipG]

ya i've been following that thread for info too. lotta good tips. do you just query the distribs or is there a better way to get the film in the hands of people with real influence?

For your movie Millenium or Nu Image (same thing) might be a good place to start. That's Avi Lerner's studio. Weinsteins are really big right now on the direct to dvd market for movies in the $1-$3 million range, they can put anything on Blockbusters shelves and yes you can rent UNKNOWN there.

Have you done any research on distributors that buy the type of movie you are talking about making? I think it is a HUGE mistake to start making a film without knowing who your customers (dist) are.

 

[ChipG]

FYI Neither of the above will give an unproven film maker any money. Your going to have to get it made and do a hell of a job making it with names that sell on your own, then they'll take a look at it.

 

[Nathyn]

In a post somewhere back there was a note the action doesn't sell in SD? Let me just ask - how does that make sense? Distributers don't care what format the original film was on. Under that auspice, 28 Days Later wouldn't have been picked up and turned into a franchise. That is just one film of many that originated SD.

Not true. We're in a flooded market now. When 28 Days Later came out (2002) everything was SD anyway and HD was still to be desired by consumers and prosumers. In 2004/5 we got a slew of HDV/HD cameras. Now a kid with an HV20 and the right set up with the right amount of grey matter can make a great action film. I've seen some stuff on here done by young college guys just for fun that trumps my first film in "slickness" (camera movement and angles and looks).

I wasn't saying SD action DOESN'T sale but a no name guy doing action would do better to shoot on HD now days. Action is hard to do but there are crews out there like the Stunt People (young guys too) dedicated to doing great action and are succeeding (Just look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu7YPUaQFcs ). Dude, I'm almost forty, LOL. Since action is something many people are doing, the one thing we action guys have going for us is that horror is indeed easier to do and a lot of newcomers go for that first so we're not AS flooded as the horror market.

I could've moved my film. But the guys who wanted it wanted it for free. The guys who were willing to pay wanted HD. It was that simple in my situation. I did better with self distribution via the web but still haven't nearly broken even.

Next time we're shooting HD with more solid goals. We're aiming to sale. More action, less talk and better cohesion. And not only more action but better action. I'll be doing extended fights (scenes that will take two or three days to choreo), table crashes and a possible ten on one scene, more skilled take downs and working with the room. No wires (not that I don't like wire-fu as some have thought) and no impossible moves but definitely some fancy stuff. Real moves but also a lot of good looking stuff to. In Wages I went old school, now it's time for new school and tighter editing not to mention better gun effects. We'll be using a mix of cheap die cast guns (cheap and lighter but they look more real because they're actually metal), electric (battery operated actually) blow back guns and the like. Might even get the Mad Max sawed off. And we want better actors overall.

But as before the action scenes will focus mainly on martial arts versus gunplay. What's involved in each scene will be decided before hand. In Wages I got in a room and told my fighters "Do it like this". I'll move with the same choreo speed but all my fighters will be martial artist or stunt performers. You can tell who knew martial arts and who didn't. The best scenes are the one's where I fought with guys who had some skills. And on top of all this I still have to keep the writing level that makes people like my stories. With all this the last thing I want is to put something on SD. Shooting SD isn't a deal breaker but HD simply gives you more options, so it makes sense.

And there was another note that romance does well. Romance won't do well unless names are attached. Hollywood pops out more romantic dramas and comedies than you could imagine. It has to really be a unique story, or with good to excellent name talent to do well anywhere.

I did indeed say romance sales "with the right people". Is Debra Messing suddenly unavailable? LOL. There are people who you can find for low budget romance (I don't know about Messing, she may be a baller now considering her show was being re-ran in syndication for awhile). But there's people out there.

Without getting into an argument with anyone, if anyone on this board had connections with the right agent or production company or studio, trust me you could shoot on a webcam and somebody may still distribute it. And don't have somebody famous like Nicole Kidman in it, then it's an automatic sell. Hollywood folks can do things we can't do because they know people - and most of us don't.

Yep, that's the real lick right there.

-Nate

 

[El Gato Negro]

might suggest you shot it on a super 16mm. arri or aaton.

 

[steadicamsteel]

If your going for a theatrical release shoot on film. No ifs ands or buts.

 

[TimurCivan]

just curious Tim, do you have experience shooting on film? i checked out your reel and it looked pretty cool. do u have anything in there shot on film?

I have some experince. I shot 2nd unit on a Feature.

Shoting film isnt so hard. ou jut need to keep an extra eye on Contrast ratios and making sure you shoot a color chart for the Lab to time properly.

I never got the footage i shot for the film. so no my reel does not reflect it.

FYI the feature was shot on S35 on an Arri BL4/BL3 for less than 50K. Thats why i say you can DEFINITELY do it on 500-700K. Its just that this film had ZERO room for errors. Any reshoot and the bank was broken.

 

[FilmBoy77]

You should come to the Atlanta Screenwriters Group tonight. I'm going. I went off on AtlantaFilmCommunity.org about 3 months ago. Basically being upset with the influx of shorts without many features. Well one of the guys who participated in "the longest post on their website", wrote a screenplay based on what I said in the thread. I said if you can only do shorts, why not do a movie with 3 interconnected shorts. So he did. They are going to read it tonight. So I'm going. :beer:

is that whats called The Meet Up? one of my actors keeps telling me about it...i have some people in town this weekend and wont be able to make it, maybe next time around. did you get anything useful form the meetings? or is it kind of a whos got the biggest ^%^$ contest with egos and whatnot, lol

 

[ChipG]

Good Q - I'd like to know that too.

A well known sales agent who has sold many movies is the easiest way to go, there are a lot of scumbags out there, one that has a good reputation will always have thier phone calls taken by the distributors. I sent Adam a referal for Corrado, I hope it pans out for him.

 

[brianluce]

might suggest you shot it on a super 16mm. arri or aaton.

I second that vote. How does 2k resolution, 4:4:4 color and 14 stops of latitude sound? You can get great deals on 16mm right now.

 

[jls4]

is that whats called The Meet Up? one of my actors keeps telling me about it...i have some people in town this weekend and wont be able to make it, maybe next time around. did you get anything useful form the meetings? or is it kind of a whos got the biggest ^%^$ contest with egos and whatnot, lol

I've never been to the meetups, although many of my actors are connected. I've learned to connect myself to the "main behind the scenes people." Lots of folks are connected to the Atlanta Film Fest. If the organization is not connected to them, OR the organization is not connected to another major festival in town, OR the organization doesn't help to really produce movies - I don't waste my time. If the people involved in a group, never do projects - what's the group for? So we can all sit around and look at each other

First Guy
"Hey I want to direct!"

Second Guy
"Wow I want to direct too!"

Together
"Cool"

And unfortunately that's what most people do. They talk about it for 20 years, but never get around to it - blaming everything and their moma for stopping them. I'm broke, I need lots of money to make a movie, I don't have a script, I can't find actors, my appendix broke, blah blah blah

 

[jls4]

A well known sales agent who has sold many movies is the easiest way to go, there are a lot of scumbags out there, one that has a good reputation will always have thier phone calls taken by the distributors. I sent Adam a referal for Corrado, I hope it pans out for him.

I'm definately going to keep you in mind Chip. If all goes well when I have something strong, I'll send it to you so you can check it out. If I get a sell, I can definately give you a "thank you" point or two. :beer:

 

[jls4]

Action is hard to do but there are crews out there like the Stunt People (young guys too) dedicated to doing great action and are succeeding (Just look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu7YPUaQFcs ).

D^mn that was hot!!!! And they are in North Carolina too! I told you the SouthEast is on the rise. Cali better watch out! LOL

But that's cool. I've been looking for some local people to help me with some stunts, maybe I can get them to make the 3 hour drive. Thanks for posting this Nathyn.

 

[Martay]

is that whats called The Meet Up? one of my actors keeps telling me about it...i have some people in town this weekend and wont be able to make it, maybe next time around. did you get anything useful form the meetings? or is it kind of a whos got the biggest ^%^$ contest with egos and whatnot, lol

No. The Atlanta Screenwriters Group is different from the Meetup group in town. The meetup (I've never been but know the guy who started it) is to encourage filmakers in town to "meet up" swap stories and get involved with each other's projects, etc. I believe they've done some shorts based on meetup collabos etc.

The Atlanta Screenwriters Group www.atlscript.org is an organization that's been around 10+ years and we meet 2 times a month (1st & 3rd Thursdays) to do table reads of feature screenplays and give the writers feedback to help them improve their work.

The Atlanta Film Festival 365 organization sponsors our location to hold the meetings.

Lots of great screenwriters have been a part of ASG over the years. Many have been produced or won contests, etc.

No Shane Black's as yet but definitely some solid writers. Overall, though, even for newbies who get a reality check, I believe the group is a value to the membership who've kept us alive for more than 10 years now.

Martin Kelley
Co-President, Atlanta Screenwriters Group

 

[ChipG]

People have had success shooting on 16mm and blowing it up to 35mm and you can say it was shot on film.

For Your Consideration was shot on super 16mm with a Arri SR3 camera and blown up to 35mm. Warner Brothers picked it up.

http://wip.warnerbros.com/foryourconsideration/

There have been a lot of films that have taken this approach.

 

[jls4]

No. The Atlanta Screenwriters Group is different from the Meetup group in town. The meetup (I've never been but know the guy who started it) is to encourage filmakers in town to "meet up" swap stories and get involved with each other's projects, etc. I believe they've done some shorts based on meetup collabos etc.

The Atlanta Screenwriters Group www.atlscript.org is an organization that's been around 10+ years and we meet 2 times a month (1st & 3rd Thursdays) to do table reads of feature screenplays and give the writers feedback to help them improve their work.

The Atlanta Film Festival 365 organization sponsors our location to hold the meetings.

Lots of great screenwriters have been a part of ASG over the years. Many have been produced or won contests, etc.

No Shane Black's as yet but definitely some solid writers. Overall, though, even for newbies who get a reality check, I believe the group is a value to the membership who've kept us alive for more than 10 years now.

Martin Kelley
Co-President, Atlanta Screenwriters Group

Hey Martin, welcome to DVXuser! :beer: