Official Sony NEX-VG10 Thread

Promo Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxJiJH1YsrQ

I guess they are keeping all the cool features for the S35 camera that they showed at NAB.

This thing:
http://vimeo.com/10882451

But I'm guessing like the NEX3/NEX5 this will do 25P?

Either way, it seems that large-sensors and interchangeable lenses are going to become common place soon even in the low-end camcorders. This 18-200mm lens is a $800 piece of glass and it comes with a $99 credit towards Vegas, so body-only this isn't a very expensive piece of equipment.
 
Sony will always have to compromise on a consumer/prosumer camcorder like this because of the billions they make in their professional division.

My gut feeling is that it's already a failure. They brought this camera out based on buzz of large sensor video demand, but they don't understand who are buying those products. By leaving out features such as 24p, (or progressive video altogether), and keeping the data-rate low, they are shutting out the enthusiast market.

Just as 95% of Canon 1D-IV owners are not professional sports photograhers, it's mainly not real indy filmmakers who buy most of these HD-DSLR's for the video features. It's hobbyists who are interested in filmmaking. And those people want high-end specs. They will shoot charts and flowers and not be happy till every pixel is in place.

(Unless Vitaliy can enhance it.)
 
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No manual audio?

No manual audio?

According to the Imaging Resource preview, it has no manual audio, just a 15 step headphone level control. If that is correct it says a lot about the intended audience not being the DVX guerilla filmmakers that dwell here. Reading that, it makes the statement in the PC World announcement about the new Sony being "primed for serious audio capture" a bit off key.
 
Chris Light said:
well certainly not Micro 4/3...no such thing in Sony-speak.

it's clearly stated in the article...did you read the words?
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Actually it's not clearly stated at all. They call it APS-HD. So that gives no indication of the sensor size... it could be APS-C or APS-H or APS-P. Even in the most common case of APS-C there is still some variations between brands. Then the article makes it even more confusing by saying it is basically the same as Micro 4/3rds. So even if he had read the words it was a fair question to ask and one that deserves a fair answer. After some quick googling that answer is... It is the exact same size as Sony's APS-C Alpha-mount DSLR's.

steventimothy said:
and keeping the data-rate low, they are shutting out the enthusiast market.
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The data rate is not low at all. Yes, it is lower than the Canon DSLR's but they have a terrible encoder. Properly implemented AVCHD at 24mbps will be much better than anything coming out of the Canon's at 45mbps or whatever their data rate is. The Canon's encoder was so bad that they simply had to use the high bitrate to get a usable image.

AVCHD has been proven to be a very effiecent, high quality codec. 24mpbs AVCHD from Panasonic's AVC-CAMs is just as good if not better than 35mbps XD-CAM EX from the EX1. If the codec wasn't up to the tast, Panasonic would not be using it for the AF100. Personally I'll be thankful if this camera has well implemented H.264 at 24mbps - expensive 16gb class 10 cards will no longer be a necessity.
 
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deltoidjohn said:
The data rate is not low at all. Yes, it is lower than the Canon DSLR's but they have a terrible encoder. Properly implemented AVCHD at 24mbps will be much better than anything coming out of the Canon's at 45mbps or whatever their data rate is. The Canon's encoder was so bad that they simply had to use the high bitrate to get a usable image.

AVCHD has been proven to be a very effiecent, high quality codec. 24mpbs AVCHD from Panasonic's AVC-CAMs is just as good if not better than 35mbps XD-CAM EX from the EX1. If the codec wasn't up to the tast, Panasonic would not be using it for the AF100. Personally I'll be thankful if this camera has well implemented H.264 at 24mbps - expensive 16gb class 10 cards will no longer be a necessity.
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I'm sure that Sony will optimize the encoder/data-rate to give a good picture, but I'm guessing that it won't stand up to the now de-facto GH-13 (or the HMC40) when you extract HD stills from it, especially considering the 4:2:2 aspect of the GH-13.

The price of $2,000 puts that camcorder squarely into the "enthusiast" market and not the "guy at Disney World" market. ("Indy Filmmaker" is not a market for Sony, but they influence heavily the "Enthusiast"). Enthusiasts will buy the GH-1 or next equivalent almost every time over a camcorder with sub-standard specs, especially if it's cheaper. The ease-of-use factor is not that relevent to enthusiasts.
 
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Not that it has any affect on the picture quality one bit, but man, Sony can turn out some designs when they feel like it.

The VG10 makes the AG100 look like it was designed in an Eastern Bloc fifth grade art class circa 1985.

That being said, thankfully, the AG100 has the specs to stom all over the Sony.
 
Barry_Green said:
It's not a filmmaker camera, it's a hybrid video/still camera. For those wanting a Disneyworld camera that they can take stills, and also full-motion video, it's probably fairly ideal. And 60i would be no problem for those users at all, and may even be preferable.

It's approaching the hybrid from the video side instead of the stills side like everyone else has done. Interesting and may do quite well in the marketplace, we'll see.
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Same as every other still/video hybrid DSLR out there. None of them were conceived or intended as filmmaker cameras.
 
I don't understand what target group they're aiming at?

Lack of 24p (and Sony E-mount) might turn off most indie filmmakers and Sony might probably have to make a lot of noise to have the regular family guy at Disneyland recognize the benefits of this hybrid.
Nevertheless, any bigger sized sensor camcorder is a nice step forward in overall progress.
 
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I agree Stip.

There is a big gap between the consumer/casual shooter gear and the Prosumer stuff. It's good to see sony trying to fill that gap but this one does seem a bit odd given the exclusions - there's no target group that it really ticks all the boxes for.

However, lack of 24p isn't as much of a problem in PAL land because you can deinterlace 50i to get 25p, and if you're downconverting as well then you won't even notice the resolution hit.
 
Why the heck is Sony so reluctant when it comes to progressive?! Argh! It just makes me mad! This could be a really cool camera.
 
So if a family can afford a $2k camcorder, they probably also have a mid-high end progressive TV, bluray player and mid-high end computer. None of which is optimized with 60i. Hell, nothing optimized for 60i has been made in what, a decade?
 
shaocaholica said:
So if a family can afford a $2k camcorder, they probably also have a mid-high end progressive TV, bluray player and mid-high end computer. None of which is optimized with 60i. Hell, nothing optimized for 60i has been made in what, a decade?
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60i is great for sports... so we've established a Disneyland-going, sports-shootin', rootin' tootin' lens-removin' consumer with a 2K budget.

Maybe their market research dept is sniffing glue... they're not on this forum, anyway.
 
shaocaholica said:
So if a family can afford a $2k camcorder, they probably also have a mid-high end progressive TV, bluray player and mid-high end computer. None of which is optimized with 60i. Hell, nothing optimized for 60i has been made in what, a decade?
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Everthing that is broadcast currently in 1080HD is 60i. Broadcast standard doesn't currently support 1080p for over air/cable/satellite delivery due to 6mhz channel bandwidth limitations. TV's deinterlace to 1080p.
 
deltoidjohn said:
Dumb how?

If you want 60p, get the NX5. Simple. People have spent years begging for 24p, then they finally give it to us on the AX2000 and it's not enough!
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Dumb in the fact that the closest competing camcorder, the HMC150, is listed on B&H as the same price as the AX2000, but has 60p; the NX5U costs $500 more than either of them. What's the logic in releasing a pair of near-identical camcorders, and handicapping one of them severely without putting in a real substantial price break?
 
It has long been true that Sony will sell "consumer" camcorders which produce great images but have been crippled so to make them less desirable to Pro shooters, nothing new here. Panasonic has a different view often including pro features on their "consumer" camcorders 24p is only one example.
 
steventimothy said:
I'm sure that Sony will optimize the encoder/data-rate to give a good picture, but I'm guessing that it won't stand up to the now de-facto GH-13 (or the HMC40) when you extract HD stills from it, especially considering the 4:2:2 aspect of the GH-13.

The price of $2,000 puts that camcorder squarely into the "enthusiast" market and not the "guy at Disney World" market. ("Indy Filmmaker" is not a market for Sony, but they influence heavily the "Enthusiast"). Enthusiasts will buy the GH-1 or next equivalent almost every time over a camcorder with sub-standard specs, especially if it's cheaper. The ease-of-use factor is not that relevent to enthusiasts.
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I have to agree... I am a hybrid of "enthusiast" and the "guy at Disney world".... I recently picked up a Gh1 for the simply facts that it was much cheaper than any of the Pro stuff out there that was even 2-3 years old, offered 24p and seemed to offer the best of both worlds (video & photography) in one package.

For stability in shooting run & gun stuff, I would pick a camcorder form-factor every time, but for around $1k the GH1 couldn't be beat and I am willing to "learn" a new form factor.

Whatever the market Sony has in mind, this thing will most-likely be an intermediate product for a year or 6 months until they see what the other boys (Canon, JVC & Panasonic) offer in the Prosumer arena.

That being said, if it winds up having comparable features to the GH1 and is about $600 cheaper I might consider it, but at $2k I'll pass. By the time they figure things out I will have that much or more invested in my GH13 and be over it anyway...sorry "Charlie".
 
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