Odyssey7Q

[jshbckr]

Wait, are you saying it isnt possible to switch between different framerates on the same disk???
Switching from pal to ntsc might not work but you got to be able to switch from recording from 24 to 60 (25 to 50) on the same disk..... right??

A while back Dan mentioned that it may be set up that two SSDs are sort of "formatted" for 240fps usage and then you would need to use another drive for "standard" modes (24, 30, etc). But it sounded like they may not have that limitation anymore, which I hope is the case.

Personally, I'm picking up three SSDs so I can be offloading two drives while shooting on a 3rd (no 240fps while that's happening, but oh well).

I think what nyvz might be referring to by "different SSD requirements" is that people could be shooting fine with one SSD, but then they have to put in a second SSD for slomo, etc.

 

[Colinelves]

I was planning on getting 4 of the 256Gb disks for this reason (which is cheaper than 2x512?!) because I suspect most of the time the O7Q will be hired by productions when they want to shoot 240 fps - and one set will get burned after 20min. So one set for shooting, one set for downloading.

 

[Dan Keaton]

I was planning on getting 4 of the 256Gb disks for this reason (which is cheaper than 2x512?!) because I suspect most of the time the O7Q will be hired by productions when they want to shoot 240 fps - and one set will get burned after 20min. So one set for shooting, one set for downloading.

Dear Colinelves,

We lowered the price of the 512 GB SSD's to $795.

Thus, the 256 GB SSD's are $395 and the 512 GB SSD's are $795 and these are US prices.

The 512 GB SSD's were originally $1,195, then $895, and now $795.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[S.Blanchardon]

So almost the same, with a 0.01 cent difference !

Dan, will you be at the IBC next month ?

Thanks.

 

[Clermond]

Dear Dan,
that sounds quite reasonable, can't wait until 7Q will be supplied.
best,
Cler

 

[Dan Keaton]

Hi Dan,

I can see you will have a booth at the IBC in Amsterdam next month, do you think you will have an Odyssey 7Q ready with an FS700 at this time ?

Maybe you will be there in person ? It would be nice to meet you !

Regards,
Stephane.

Dear Stephane,

It would be nice to meet you.

I doubt that I will be attending IBC this year, I have an event in New York City to attend.

Mike Schell will be attending IBC.

We will be showing our Odyssey7Q with an FS700.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[sebasti]

Hi Dan,

One more thing about those 6G-SDI connectors you said was originally intended for Odyssey. Apparently Blackmagic also has this connectivity on Hyperdeck pro which is already available. They just updated the firmware which added the support for 6G. Does this mean that you can also add that to the Odyssey? I just believe not having this option in future will outdate the device when manufacturers go with one 6G-SDI on the camera instead of four 3G-SDIs...

Cheers,
Sebasti

 

[Dan Keaton]

Seems like a chart may be needed to keep all the formats straight... Seems like it could be a pain to not have all options supported at all formats or at least have one recording codec that is available in all modes...

4k is only DPX or prores? Nothing else? Maybe something more compressed? I've never seen much need for more than ~40MBps shooting 4k on RED... 100MBps 4k prores is still a lot. And still only up to 30fps? or can it do 60fps? 120fps burst?

2k/1080 from 4k? It's not clear if that is available and at what framerates and what codecs..

2k RAW is only available in 12bit cinemaDNG? I don't suppose there is much reason for anyone to use 2k from 2k RAW unless they are using 100-240fps, right? And those are not available in compressed codecs? Only in DNG RAW at ridiculously high bitrates?

I often do jobs that switch between 24fps, 60fps and 240fps, it would be a real pain to have to deliver in multiple very different formats and have different SSD requirements each time I want to switch to a higher framerate. And anything >100MBps seems like a pretty huge burden for any production and probably would get very little use from normal users.

Very interested in the 7Q for my FS700, but can't really pre-order till I get a clear idea of what formats and options are available.

Dear Noah,

I will try to provide answers to your questions.

First, here are the recording options that are available on the Odyssey7Q, without any extra cost options:

[TABLE="width: 512"]
[TR]
[TD]Recording Features[/TD]
[TD]Base Odyssey7Q[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Compressed Video[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Compressed 1080p YCC 10-bit 422 up to 120fps[/TD]
[TD]✓[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Compressed 1080p RGB 12-bit 444 up to 60fps*[/TD]
[TD]✓[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Uncompressed Video[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Uncompressed 1080p RGB 10/12-bit 444 up to 60fps[/TD]
[TD]✓[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The "*" indicates that this is scheduled to be added, for free, in a future firmware release, not available in the initial firmware release.

With the Sony FS700 Raw Option ($795 US - Extra Cost Option):

Sony FS700 RAW: 2K RAW 12-bit up to 240fps, includes other frame rates such as 60 fps and 120 fps

Compressed 1080p 10-bit YCC up to 60fps (super-sampled from 4K Raw),
We intend to record this from the 12-Bit Linear, encoded in a log Format, S-Log or S-Log 2 (to be determined)

Compressed 4K YCC 10-bit up to 30fps
And we may have a future announcement concerning this mode.

We also intend to record this from the 12-Bit Linear into a log format.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, to answer your specific questions:

4k is only DPX or prores? Nothing else? Maybe something more compressed? I've never seen much need for more than ~40MBps shooting 4k on RED... 100MBps 4k prores is still a lot. And still only up to 30fps? or can it do 60fps? 120fps burst?

4K for the FS700 or F55 is to a compressed codec only. Not DPX due to the very large file sizes.

Note: In recording 4K from the FS700, we have decided to offer this in only a compressed codec.

Recording this format compressed allows many more to work with 4K,
rather than recording to full uncompressed in DPX, which entails much larger file sizes.

We do not expect to offer recording 4K to DPX for the Sony FS700, or for the Sony F55.

The Sony F55 can output 4K over four HD-SDI 1.5G Single Link outputs,
and the Odyssey7Q with the FS700 option will be able to record this to a compressed codec in 4K.

For other cameras, such as the Canon C500, we record 4K Raw to Canon Cinema Raw
which is full uncompressed Raw, and the file sizes are much larger.

We intend to offer, for the Canon C500, recording 4K to a compressed codec also for when a Raw workflow is not desired.

Our current plans are to offer additional bit-rates for the compressed codecs in future firmware releases.
We may not have these ready for the initial firmware release.

We hope to make an announcement in the future about recording 4K at higher frame rates.
We need time for our engineers to prove that we can support higher frame rates in 4K before we make an announcement.

2k/1080 from 4k? It's not clear if that is available and at what framerates and what codecs..

Currently we accept the 2K Raw from the FS700's 2K Raw output, and output it in Cinema DNG (which is a Raw Format).
We do not currently take 4K Raw from the FS700 and create 2K from it.

We do plan on taking 4K Raw 12-Bit Linear, and creating 1080p footage to provide greater than 8-Bit 1080p footage.
This will be recorded to a compressed codec.

2k RAW is only available in 12bit cinemaDNG? I don't suppose there is much reason for anyone to use 2k from 2k RAW unless they are using 100-240fps, right? And those are not available in compressed codecs? Only in DNG RAW at ridiculously high bitrates?

At this time 2K Raw is 12-Bit Cinema DNG.

This works at 60 fps, 120 fps (both to one SSD) or at 240 fps to two SSD's.

These are not recorded to a compressed codec, at least not at this time.

I hope you understand that supporting the FS700 and many other cameras takes a tremendous amount of engineering time.
It is just not practical to offer every possible option/favor on our initial firmware release.

I often do jobs that switch between 24fps, 60fps and 240fps, it would be a real pain to have to deliver in multiple very different formats and have different SSD requirements each time I want to switch to a higher framerate. And anything >100MBps seems like a pretty huge burden for any production and probably would get very little use from normal users.

I have noted your concern. We purposely do not have different SSD requirements for different formats. Many have asked us to open this up to other SSD's, other than ours, and this would involve user's having to use different SSD's for different tasks.

We simply cannot promise to record 240 fps to a compressed codec until we prove that this is possible.

We agree completely that the larger file sizes can be a burden. On the other hand, except for special applications, 240 fps is for limited duration recordings.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

Hi Dan,
I can't find mention of it on your site or elsewhere but can you confirm or deny that the 7/7Q has anamorphic desqueeze? More and more people are using anamorphic lenses nowadays from amateur to professional and as I use them a lot if it didn't have that feature I couldn't use it as my primary monitor when using anamorphics and would have to plug my DP6 in aswell which would be frustrating. Looking at your monitoring peers in the FS700 area like SmallHD, Alphatron and Zacuto, they all have an anamorphic desqueeze. Hopefully it's just not mentioned in the specs or is a simple firmware update coming before release?
Thanks in advance,
Toby

Dear Toby,

We currently support anamorphic desqueeze in our Gemini 4:4:4 ARRIRAW option. We will certainly support this on our Odyssey7Q ARRIRAW Option.

It appears that you are asking for this for other cameras. We will consider adding this as a feature.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

Dan, Will convergent-design and Odyssey 7/7Q be in Beijing BIRTV expo at the end of the month?

Dear Sebasti,

Yes, we just sent some Odyssey7Q's to China for this event.

And I will be there also. I leave for China next week.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

Hi Dan,

Am I correct in seeing that the 7Q will include a wireless blutooth hook up to monitor remotely on an iPad/iphone? If so, that is awesome!!!! That's a great resource to have if there isn't time or space for a proper video village.

Dear DanKov,

Yes, we will have Bluetooth capabilities and we will provide a free app for smartphones and tablets.

But, this will be for two-way communication with the Odyssey7Q, including timecode, but not for actual video.


One will be able to configure the Odyssey7Q, monitor it's status including timecode, etc.

We try to keep the power down, so actual video over Bluetooth is not in our plans.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

Wait, are you saying it isnt possible to switch between different framerates on the same disk???
Switching from pal to ntsc might not work but you got to be able to switch from recording from 24 to 60 (25 to 50) on the same disk..... right??

Dear Friends,

I doubt that I said that we could not switch between different frame rates on the same SSD.

On our current Gemini 4:4:4, when one switches to a mode that requires two SSD's, we require that the SSD's be freshly formatted.
We plan on improving this. After recording to two SSD's, it is possible to switch to recording on only one SSD for a different format.

I hope we have this resolved before we release firmware for the Odyssey7Q.

For the Odyssey7Q, there are far fewer formats that require two SSD's, but over 120 fps in FS700 2K Raw is one of them.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[Dan Keaton]

Hi Dan,

One more thing about those 6G-SDI connectors you said was originally intended for Odyssey. Apparently Blackmagic also has this connectivity on Hyperdeck pro which is already available. They just updated the firmware which added the support for 6G. Does this mean that you can also add that to the Odyssey? I just believe not having this option in future will outdate the device when manufacturers go with one 6G-SDI on the camera instead of four 3G-SDIs...

Cheers,
Sebasti

Dear Sebasti,

The 6G HD-SDI Transmitter and Receiver chips were not available when we needed them.

The four HD-SDI 1.5G outputs for a 4K Monitor is a firmly entrenched standard at this time for 4K monitoring.

The cameras output this format (see the Sony F55) and the professional 4K Monitors have this type of inputs.

Also, we like to use fully approved SMPTE standards. The last I checked, this was not an approved standard.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

 

[blackdogdylan]

Dear Toby,

We currently support anamorphic desqueeze in our Gemini 4:4:4 ARRIRAW option. We will certainly support this on our Odyssey7Q ARRIRAW Option.

It appears that you are asking for this for other cameras. We will consider adding this as a feature.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

Dan-

I would second this request. it's currently the ONLY feature the 7Q lacks that my onboard monitor has (and obviously, the 7Q does a lot more!) but with the occasional use of anamorphics (especially 1.3x, like the Hawk V-Lites) having aspect control for framing and monitoring is really important. thanks for keeping us all in the loop on the progress. can't wait to get my 7Q.

 

[paulcurtis]

Hi Dan,

Couple of quick points

In a previous email you say that the base 7Q can record 1080p 10bit 422 YCC up to 120fps and 1080p 12 bit 444 RGB up to 60fps however i believe this isn't subsampled from the 4K RAW and therefore not actually possible to achieve on an FS700. I think you mean the O7 is capable of recording these streams from other sources. But for us FS700 users the camera will only ever output 8 bit (although there has always been debate whether that's 444 or 422, there's a chance that's 444).

In order to achieve a higher colour depth the recording has to be made from the 2K or 4K RAW stream, therefore that requires the FS700 extra pack (no problem there, it's just i think people will get confused).

Now the one little thing i ask. Pretty please is...

a) You are offering 1080p up to 60fps from the 4K RAW
b) Or 4K up to 30fps

if 4K isn't going to go to 60fps (and i know this is unknown) then perhaps we could get 2K up to 60fps if that is a simple as changing a scaling resolution. A 2K subsampled from the 4K is going to be a much better bet than the 2K RAW option in 99% of cases.

Of course, if you're able to write 60fps 4K then it's not needed... Or if it's going slow down getting the units out then skip it

cheers
Paul

 

[J88]

Hi Dan,

Just wondering what's the latest on the release date? I have job in earlier September which I would love the 7Q for.

Many thanks.

 

[dapoopta]

Hi Dan,

Just wondering what's the latest on the release date? I have job in earlier September which I would love the 7Q for.

Many thanks.

+1 on the release date question ;-)

 

[PrimeHD]

Dear Noah,

I will try to provide answers to your questions.

First, here are the recording options that are available on the Odyssey7Q, without any extra cost options:

[TABLE="width: 512"]
[TR]
[TD]Recording Features[/TD]
[TD]Base Odyssey7Q[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Compressed Video[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Compressed 1080p YCC 10-bit 422 up to 120fps[/TD]
[TD]✓[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Compressed 1080p RGB 12-bit 444 up to 60fps*[/TD]
[TD]✓[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Uncompressed Video[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Uncompressed 1080p RGB 10/12-bit 444 up to 60fps[/TD]
[TD]✓[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The "*" indicates that this is scheduled to be added, for free, in a future firmware release, not available in the initial firmware release.

With the Sony FS700 Raw Option ($795 US - Extra Cost Option):

Sony FS700 RAW: 2K RAW 12-bit up to 240fps, includes other frame rates such as 60 fps and 120 fps

Compressed 1080p 10-bit YCC up to 60fps (super-sampled from 4K Raw),
We intend to record this from the 12-Bit Linear, encoded in a log Format, S-Log or S-Log 2 (to be determined)

Compressed 4K YCC 10-bit up to 30fps
And we may have a future announcement concerning this mode.

We also intend to record this from the 12-Bit Linear into a log format.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, to answer your specific questions:



4K for the FS700 or F55 is to a compressed codec only. Not DPX due to the very large file sizes.

Note: In recording 4K from the FS700, we have decided to offer this in only a compressed codec.

Recording this format compressed allows many more to work with 4K,
rather than recording to full uncompressed in DPX, which entails much larger file sizes.

We do not expect to offer recording 4K to DPX for the Sony FS700, or for the Sony F55.

The Sony F55 can output 4K over four HD-SDI 1.5G Single Link outputs,
and the Odyssey7Q with the FS700 option will be able to record this to a compressed codec in 4K.

For other cameras, such as the Canon C500, we record 4K Raw to Canon Cinema Raw
which is full uncompressed Raw, and the file sizes are much larger.

We intend to offer, for the Canon C500, recording 4K to a compressed codec also for when a Raw workflow is not desired.

Our current plans are to offer additional bit-rates for the compressed codecs in future firmware releases.
We may not have these ready for the initial firmware release.

We hope to make an announcement in the future about recording 4K at higher frame rates.
We need time for our engineers to prove that we can support higher frame rates in 4K before we make an announcement.




Currently we accept the 2K Raw from the FS700's 2K Raw output, and output it in Cinema DNG (which is a Raw Format).
We do not currently take 4K Raw from the FS700 and create 2K from it.

We do plan on taking 4K Raw 12-Bit Linear, and creating 1080p footage to provide greater than 8-Bit 1080p footage.
This will be recorded to a compressed codec.



At this time 2K Raw is 12-Bit Cinema DNG.

This works at 60 fps, 120 fps (both to one SSD) or at 240 fps to two SSD's.

These are not recorded to a compressed codec, at least not at this time.

I hope you understand that supporting the FS700 and many other cameras takes a tremendous amount of engineering time.
It is just not practical to offer every possible option/favor on our initial firmware release.



I have noted your concern. We purposely do not have different SSD requirements for different formats. Many have asked us to open this up to other SSD's, other than ours, and this would involve user's having to use different SSD's for different tasks.

We simply cannot promise to record 240 fps to a compressed codec until we prove that this is possible.

We agree completely that the larger file sizes can be a burden. On the other hand, except for special applications, 240 fps is for limited duration recordings.

I hope this helps.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design

I think there should be a separate Odyssey 7Q Forum - perhaps still as a subforum within NEX cameras - and this post needs to be a Sticky.

It summarizes current state of Odyssey 7Q development very thoroughly, and Dan needs a way to update it as any changes occur... and for us the users to be able to easily follow the information. Sticky will help a lot.

 

[roro20]

Dan- can you explain how the recording to 2 ssd's works? It is only 1 file that is written, correct? Im just not quite understanding. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[S.Blanchardon]

Dan- can you explain how the recording to 2 ssd's works? It is only 1 file that is written, correct? Im just not quite understanding. Thanks for the clarification.

Dan already explained it, one record odd frames and the other one even frames.

Then, you use a small app that merges the two in a breeze.

Cheers.