Odyssey7Q February 2014 Firmware Update

[dapoopta]

How many seconds of burst do you have with the r5? 4 @ 120fps? so you end up with 20 sec at 24fps?

 

[rotierney]

It's not all roses yet. Here's a quick example of how 4K2HD handles shadows and high contrast lines. High contrast is pretty nasty still (and even more pronounced) and something to be aware of if you've got a shoot coming up. Image is cropped 400%

 

[dapoopta]

It's not all roses yet. Here's a quick example of how 4K2HD handles shadows and high contrast lines. High contrast is pretty nasty still (and even more pronounced) and something to be aware of if you've got a shoot coming up. Image is cropped 400%

Sony needs to fix this I think... it drives me crazy when I punch in to set focus. I almost use it as you would use peaking to set focus

 

[waefre]

Got it. Thanks. Had to hit the Assign button

 

[freiheit]

How many seconds of burst do you have with the r5? 4 @ 120fps? so you end up with 20 sec at 24fps?

it's 4sec. burst and always have around 17sec (17sec 16 - 18frame) footage from it. people said that it's useless but it's really epic cut to me.

hope CD will put this function to 7Q soon.

 

[paulcurtis]

It's not all roses yet. Here's a quick example of how 4K2HD handles shadows and high contrast lines. High contrast is pretty nasty still (and even more pronounced) and something to be aware of if you've got a shoot coming up. Image is cropped 400%

Have you tried 4K RAW by comparison? AFAIK the highlight handling issues are gone in 4K and 2K as well.

The images look like colour aliasing in extreme high contrast areas, the original highlight issues with the AVCHD are more to do with rounding errors when Sony do an internal scale (you get the black pixels).

You're also in REC709? Try Slog, it reduces these kind of things too.

The AVCHD adds some serious noise reduction to the image, which is the shadow difference you are seeing. The 4K2HD is giving you what the sensor is really seeing, no AVC mush. In fact if you compare with just the standard 8 bit output from the camera you'll see the shadow noise there.

For ultimate shadow range, the best method is still 4K -> Noise Reduction -> Scale, but test to see if you think the extra overhead is worth it.

I'm a big proponent of shooting Slog whenever it's possible, it's very easy to 'unlog' and if you stick to 709 then you're not taking advantage of the output.

hth
Paul

 

[paulcurtis]

i've testing FS700's 4Kraw 120fps with R5 while, and this is the far most advanced, and unique function this camera has. period.

4Kraw up to 60fps, great! 4K2HD, super! but 4Kraw 120fps is the function only few camera on the earth can handle and FS700 is the one. this is very special thing for us.

so please CD, try this function available ASAP.

here's the link i uploaded few sample 4K size TIFF from 120fps burst. look that sharpness from slow motion footage :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjjx1zaqjv67d99/4K_TIFF_031214.zip

i really don't care which recorder (R5 or 7Q) is better for FS700. it's very, very important that the camera, FS700, has this monster function inside and every user should have this very soon.

freiheit

You can see from the Release notes that 4K 100/120fps isn't yet supported, meaning that you cannot capture the high speed buffer yet. I believe it's capable of doing it but not with this release.

cheers
Paul

 

[Pgale]

Makes sense. I had a suspicion that your choice of the word "rare" meant that it was truly rare. Shooters just hate the idea of those moments being lost... like... tears in rain.

(sorry, I had to)

At least if you're dual recording to SD internally, there's some kind of backup if a clip did corrupt for some reason ok not raw or 4k2hd but if that clip was super important, it might save the day?

 

[Pgale]

Didn't mean for it to be and I take a chunk of the blame. It was not entirely clear to me how much would be on our side v. theirs. Other software like Cine Martin and our course Resolve has no issue, but we know y'all want Adobe products to fully integrate. I do beieve it will be soon.

Yes, 4K2HD results in standard Apple ProRes files, so you can use them wherever appropriate.

BTW, please note how we handle 4K2HD. If you want to use the FS700 & Odyssey7Q to simply deliver a kick-ass REC709 image with little to no post work, set the Picture Profile in the camera to IT709 (that's another name for REC709). If you want to get the most dynamic range out of the sensor and intend to spend time in color correction, then set the Picture Profile in the camera to SLOG2. Please note that for now these are the only two Picture Profiles supported, and selecting any other will result in odd color & contrast performance.

OK thanks for the explanation Mitch.

Re picture profiles for the 4K2HD, do you have any recommendations as to settings for the ultimate picture. Obviously some settings are personal preference but I'm thinking some might make a big difference with your super sampling algorithms such as detail etc?

 

[Pgale]

See if it ever happens again. It's very possible the inclinometer had to orient itself. Every now & then my iPhone insists on taking pictures upside down.

This is repeatable every time I turn auto orient on. I obviously don't know what kind of inclinometer it is and how it's mounted. If it's only me seeing this, is it possible mine is mounted incorrectly (if that's even possible)?
maybe I need to send an email to support?

 

[Pgale]

If this problem persists please let us (me) know.

If anyone else discovers issues please inform us (me). We try to test everything repeatedly but there's always a chance something could slip by. We intend to deal with such issues as swiftly as possible.

A busy time for you at the moment!

Mitch, are you dedicated to releasing fixes for firmware bugs as quickly as humanly possible BEFORE adding further features? I wouldn't like to see the same problem again where fixes were already done but we had to wait many months for major features to be completed. Ok I know that it was prores certification you were waiting on but to some extent it could potentially happen for other features that take a lot of effort to code.

So my plea is simple - priority of bug fixes over features. I'm sure that makes sense however you look at it.

Thanks.

 

[Stuart Keasley]

To be supported in the future. The way this functions is to use the internal buffer that is normally used to capture slow-mo in the video mode. In this case it will capture 4K at 120fps, I believe for four seconds. Then it will play it out at 60fps. I have not yet tested whether this can be manually recorded on the Odyssey at this point, bu the double triggering gets complicated so for right now we don't have it supported.

I've had a go, sadly doesn't work, when you flip to 4k 100/120 fps the 7Q reports unsupported signal, no change when you click the trigger to record.
I guess they're doing something a little different from the 1080p buffer mode.

 

[sunnyjimfilms]

Got the firmware uploaded late last night UK time. Tested, filming the dog like everyone else. Have biffed the hired in F5 and am straight into 2 days shooting for TV using HD Rec709. First time I can confidently use it professionally. Only forseeable issue? Lack of immediate playback. I'll live with that.

 

[Stuart Keasley]

Got the firmware uploaded late last night UK time. Tested, filming the dog like everyone else. Have biffed the hired in F5 and am straight into 2 days shooting for TV using HD Rec709. First time I can confidently use it professionally. Only forseeable issue? Lack of immediate playback. I'll live with that.

Playback on the monitor works fine for us?

 

[Essami]

It's not all roses yet. Here's a quick example of how 4K2HD handles shadows and high contrast lines. High contrast is pretty nasty still (and even more pronounced) and something to be aware of if you've got a shoot coming up. Image is cropped 400%

Wow! That is really bad. Why is this still happening? I thought it was due to the signal processing that was supposed to be bypassed with the 4K2HD? Is it in the 4K raw and 2K raw?

 

[Mitch Gross]

This is repeatable every time I turn auto orient on. I obviously don't know what kind of inclinometer it is and how it's mounted. If it's only me seeing this, is it possible mine is mounted incorrectly (if that's even possible)?
maybe I need to send an email to support?

Yes, please send in an email to our support desk.

 

[rotierney]

Have you tried 4K RAW by comparison? AFAIK the highlight handling issues are gone in 4K and 2K as well.

The images look like colour aliasing in extreme high contrast areas, the original highlight issues with the AVCHD are more to do with rounding errors when Sony do an internal scale (you get the black pixels).

You're also in REC709? Try Slog, it reduces these kind of things too.

The AVCHD adds some serious noise reduction to the image, which is the shadow difference you are seeing. The 4K2HD is giving you what the sensor is really seeing, no AVC mush. In fact if you compare with just the standard 8 bit output from the camera you'll see the shadow noise there.

For ultimate shadow range, the best method is still 4K -> Noise Reduction -> Scale, but test to see if you think the extra overhead is worth it.

I'm a big proponent of shooting Slog whenever it's possible, it's very easy to 'unlog' and if you stick to 709 then you're not taking advantage of the output.

hth
Paul

Thanks for the info Paul. Haven't tried much 4K yet. Have been just mainly testing 4K2HD in REC709 as I have a shoot tomorrow morning where I need to hand the footage to a news channel and I'm guessing they aint heard of Slog2! Will be doing lots more testing over the weekend so will dive into 4K then.

On another note I've noticed that the 4K2HD seems to de-squeeze the image horizontally compared to AVCHD. The AVCHD has a slight horizontal stretch that I've never noticed before. Still blown away by how much better this 4K2HD image is

 

[paulcurtis]

Thanks for the info Paul. Haven't tried much 4K yet. Have been just mainly testing 4K2HD in REC709 as I have a shoot tomorrow morning where I need to hand the footage to a news channel and I'm guessing they aint heard of Slog2! Will be doing lots more testing over the weekend so will dive into 4K then.

On another note I've noticed that the 4K2HD seems to de-squeeze the image horizontally compared to AVCHD. The AVCHD has a slight horizontal stretch that I've never noticed before. Still blown away by how much better this 4K2HD image is

In the release notes it's mentioned that the 4K2HD is a crop of the 17:9 sensor (so full width is 4096, the 4K2HD takes a 3840 crop to create the HD image from). The AVCHD does the same (takes a crop from the sensor) but it uses a slightly different crop, so the images are offset a little. They shouldn't however be squeezed, if they are then that's a bit of a problem?

cheers
Paul

 

[timmytimetravel]

To go with the other cat and dog tests whilst we are awaiting more compelling tests then production footage! excited for that. This is ungraded, rec709 4k raw fs700 to 7q dpx. Left at 709 in resolve, straight to prores 422 hq. Starting dpx's were 4gb for 11 seconds. Prores file 1.2gb.

Seemed to struggle playing back in latest resolve on my mbp15r at full res. Need to take a look at my settings, doesn't seem right. Into FCPx, handles fine in realtime, straight out to 4k youtube setting. 1.2gb becomes 80mb. Seems a tad small in comparison

Youtube took many minutes to show as a 4k play option in firefox, but was straight away in safari. Fine now. Odd.

Vimeo still doesn't do 4k, but you can dl the original file from the link

It begs the question... What is a good setting for exporting to vimeo from fcpx in 4k where you are expecting people to hit up the source file. I guess you are just looking at a h264 file maybe around blu-ray bitrate is reasonable. If you chose export file h264 so you can choose 4k size, there is no option for bitrate etc. Still comes out at 80mb. I guess in reality, since that is 11 seconds, probably not a bad thing. Compressor settings for "Video sharing 4k" came out at 40mb. (looks like restrict rate to 30,000 kb/s)

Would be nice if there was some middle ground playable on most pc's inbetween 80mb and 1.2gb.

May upload the 1.2gb source prores on request, just not on my new place's tiny uplink. I like vimeo's upload comment... "This video's data rate is 54012 kbit/s, which is abnormally high,we suggest you use a lower data rate, typically 5000 kbit"

I did some 4k2hd test shots as well in slog2 and rec709. Came out very nice.

4k web compressed and source dng.

Single dng

http://www.dropbox.com/s/rasf4rrsx4ixxf7/CLIP0000041_0000022.dng

Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w58hqhdvQUo

Vimeo

https://vimeo.com/89595907

 

[Pgale]

Sample 4K2HD - what next?

Sample 4K2HD - what next?

I just took a few samples - of my dogs - no cats!

I shot this using the 4K2HD mode, SLOG 2 with a Samyang 35mm T1.5 on the speed booster.

Lovely sharp detail

So I've not shot SLOG 2 before - I set exposure so nothing clipped 100 in the WFM.

What could I do next grading wise to get the most from this? I'm very familiar and happy grading HD but not sure whats best for SLOG2 footage (and RAW). Any pointers?




Edit: didn't realise this forum compresses files - heres the link to the original PNG grabs:

www.siliconpixel.com/customer_files/temp/Tom_2.png

www.siliconpixel.com/customer_files/temp/Tom_4K2HD_SLOG2.png

And the Video: