Odyssey7Q February 2014 Firmware Update

No, it is not a surprise at all.
Mitch has not been allowed to name the codec, so the missing approval was obvious the whole time.

And reading the statements, it was also obvious that CD's developers were a kind of over-engadged. Working too many features the same time instead of focussing their activities. The core problem is not bad communication, tick-tock may be added to the list. It seems to be managing the development process and setting the right priorities on the leadership level. Being dependent on external certification without being prepared to roll out a fallback, if there are delays, that is sad.

I hope, CD can improve their development process soon, otherwise we might get a kind of rehearsal. If the reference units fail the certification tests right now, please prepare the fallback. Apple will not open a 24/7 service for companies, asking for certification.

And, by the way, still no shipment date for my unit in sight. Knowing that units are in stock in CD's home market does not cheer me up, either.

I appreciate open and responsive communication, but at the end, having a unit with useful functions at hand is what counts.
 
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Maybe CDs implementation of the "popular codec" failed to meet all of Apple's specs and that's why there were programming delays. We will never know. I still like convergent Design though due to their frequent postings here and elsewhere. But that might be because for each delay I feel better for not being able to afford the 7Q yet. If I had it sitting ready to go I would probably be far less patient :)
 
This is hugely disappointing, although I understand that this must be as frustrating for you as it is for us.


However the compressed codec was just one portion of the firmware release, it expands functionality in other areas and also addresses a number of bugs.


The bugs and current functionality restrictions are significant enough to stop us from hiring the unit out to clients. We cannot expect them to swap out drives when wishing to change frame rate from <=120/100 to 240/200, or to power down the Odyssey when flipping frame rates. In the best case, this slows down the shoot and makes the Odyssey appear embarrassingly cumbersome, in the worst case it will lead to corrupt drives when the operator forgets in the heat of the moment.


We have two shoots starting next weekend, that have both been specced with 7Qs, based on the expected functionality. If these bugs aren't sorted then we will have to hire in Sony external raw recorders.


So for us, this is not just a matter of losing trust. We are losing money. We've had one 7Q since November, a second one arrives next week, neither are able to earn their keep in their current state. These are investments for our business that need to turn a profit.


So I would ask, please get the new firmware released ex compressed format with minimal delay. I understand that removing all the compressed codec code will be very time consuming, however surely it would be a simple case to just remove the compressed options from the menu tree, leave the internal code intact ready for certification.


That would also go a long way to placate the rapidly expanding baying mob...
 
nyvz said:
Yeah it does seem odd considering this is exactly what has happened to all past deadlines... Oh it's all ready but turns out we're still waiting on Apple.

I feel like they could have told us a week ago or two weeks ago they were still waiting on Apple so we would know the February deadline wasn't actually a deadline just a hope that Apple might happen to come through before then and then we could all have known it probably wasn't coming.
Click to expand...

Exactly, filter in a bit of doubt, particularly if you're depending on somebody else's time scale, thus avoiding disappointment and ensuing PR disaster if it doesn't happen on time. Basic press management I would've thought.
 
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These are all pretty strong responses and will not doubt be forgotten in the mists of time when we have our fully functioning, pimped to the max FS's but talk about setting yourself up for a fall (and I'm also talking about myself now and my promises to have something a little bit special this weekend to my client)! I'd like to say you live and learn...
 
sunnyjimfilms said:
.. Exactly, filter in a bit of doubt, particularly if your depending on somebody else's timescale, ....
Click to expand...

hmm. strictly speaking we don't know that's it's the Apple thing that is interfering the whole process. We don't know that it's Apple at all. We are talking about adding features which have been announced for 4th quarter 2013. by the way: 4th quarter starts at 1st of October but we have been brought up that 4th Q means 31st of Dec. and February means 28th.

I dont want to deny that I am quite keen on 10bit 422 whatevercodec - but I would appreciate also that CD does it's homework and fix the 7Q bugs as mentioned above as soon as possible.

Hopefully 7Q does not mean 7th quarter
 
This is disappointing - especially as I was hoping to use the new features in a shoot this weekend. Ah well, 2k raw is probably lovely enough!
 
Good luck to the CD team in getting the rest finished up! Release deadlines for unfinished tech and engineering projects are always extremely difficult, because if you knew everything that was required in order to finish, you would have finished it already. More and more of the industry is working this way now, because the long development cycles of the past would mean that your product is obsolete by the time it's 'perfected'.

So, us manufacturers make our best educated guesses, with honesty and careful consideration - add a ridiculously arbitrary contingency or multiplier from past experience - and hope that your educated guessing is getting better in time (it kinda doesn't).

It's not quite the same as say, editing a picture, where the man-hours can be known in advance with some degree of certainty, give or take creative re-work. It's more like complex post work where certain technical challenges can spiral unexpectedly. And even then, you can deliver a VFX shot looking worse than you hoped, whereas if your stumble upon unexpected firmware issues then large swathes of functionality can be utterly broken until new routines are written (costing orders of magnitude more time then expected), just to get back where you started with the issues side-stepped.

The problem CD has is that they're not adapting tried and tested code - even that is hard work - they're building an awful lot of core functionality from the ground up, and the truth is that, (a) no one on earth could have made a better "prediction", they made a good faith guess with loads of contingency, and CD will be feeling awful that it's taking more time, and (b) It will take many many months for the product to 'mature'. That doesn't mean it won't achieve certain important features very soon, but maturity of feature-sets and robustness take a long time.

Good luck getting things finished up, looking forward to it!

Kris
 
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Hello Mitch,

A couple of questions if I may.

Very interested in purchasing some 7Q & 7s' and managed to have a look at one at the BVE show in London.

Ideally we'd like to use them as operating monitors for live work with the bonus of the recorder.
I was trying to see what they were like with a 1080 50i signal (any delay etc..) but could only get the input format to read 25psf.
So downloaded the manual, it states interlace is not supported for recording currently, do you have a time frame for this ?

On fastish pans I noticed some double imaging / lag is this an artifact of the conversion to psf or the performance of the screen refresh ? Seemed the same when inputting a 1080 50p signal.
I didn't notice the project frame rate at the time would this have affected it ?



Thanks in advance.
 
Really?

Wont get Adobe support and bug fixes due to Apple certification?
I know that not everyone its like me, but ProRes means nothing to me. To who actually shoot, the important is to get a reliable recorder. I've missed shoots due to loongg power up time, loonngg Playback-recording switch, due to several monitor flickers while performing changes, due to inadvertently change from 240fps to 24fps and have to either format both drives or wait 2 hours to transfer the data to a hard drive.
Bug fixes should be worked out and released always asap, I think no one would mind to have 20 minor firmwares updated from the 4 quarter of 2013 until now, even if nothing would be perfect, in fact, the one we're using is far from fine.

Just yesterday I just got embarrassed when trying to show some footage to the client and figured out that i had dozens of black clips with duration of 0:01 and 0:02.
I need to make the current features workable. File deleting onboard would be useful, playback controls also.

I've made some basic programing in my life, is that hard to just remove the menu option of the compressed codec and release the firmware? Talking of menu, (this is a superful thing) you could make a better looking layout, it almost looks made of ascii characters.
 
Part of me wants to cut CD some slack because they are developing from scratch something that no one else has. And in concept the 7Q is the perfect tool.

But then I look at the track record and I have to admit my dissapointment. I've only had my 7Q for a month and the bugs keep me from reaching for it during every shoot. Missed deadlines, regardless whether they are self imposed or not, is just another level of let down.

As a rule of thumb, if I expect a project to be done by a Thursday, I'll promise it to the client on a Monday and deliver it on a Friday. That way everyone is happy. If CD wanted to cram all this extra good stuff in the update, they should have simply planned for it to be a March update and delivered it early if things worked out.
 
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