Odyssey7 & Odyssey7Q Status Update

[Movies by Matt]

Mitch-
Trying to figure out release timing. I've paid for the Odyssey 7 a month or so ago. If someone were to come in today & order the 7Q would they get theirs first? I ask because I don't want to wait until February if you have a bunch of 7Q orders come in after release and CD ships all 7Q orders prior to 7's. Secondly I asked previously about frame offsets for audio syncing & you mentioned it would come via firmware, but would that firmware be available for the 7 or just the 7Q? Thanks for your help.

 

[FDP]

First off, I want to thank Mitch for his work keeping everybody updated on the progress of the 7Q. This is some of the best outreach that I have ever seen from a film/broadcast technology company and it is greatly appreciated.

I wanted to touch on the FS700/R recording option specifically. I had initially dismissed purchasing this camera due to Sony's own record solution, which added too much weight, size and cost to make it a tenable platform.

The possibility of doing 4K raw recording on the Odyssey 7Q pumped new life into this camera and it was great to see Sony open up to a 3rd party record solution. Suddenly the FS700/R was one of the most attractive cameras in its price range, but of course it seems that Sony has not yet officially approved 4K raw recording using the 7Q.

While I will definitely purchase an Odyssey 7Q on release I'm going to wait and see what Sony does re: 4K raw. If this was a guaranteed feature I would buy an FS700 immediately. If instead Sony decides not to allow it or drags their feet for too long I feel like the window of opportunity will be lost. NAB 2014 is only 5 months away with a slew of new 4K cameras on the horizon, and let’s not forget that the FS700 was released back in 2012.

I wonder if I am alone here, or if there are other would-be FS700 owners waiting in the wings for this issue to resolve itself? I think that the 7Q is a revolutionary product. I’d love for the FS700/R to go along for the ride, as the combination is potentially fantastic.

Regards,
FDP

 

[Gene Sung]

@FDP. I highly doubt 4K RAW will be enabled for the 7Q, otherwise FS700 sales would probably really cut into the F5. The 7Q can do 4K RAW as Dan K. has said, but Sony won't allow them to turn it on.

The Sony solution allows 4K RAW, but very few on this forum want to buy it because it's so expensive and the ergonomics are atrocious. I believe it was set to fail from the beginning to protect the F5.

So I think with the 7Q, 4K 4:2:2 10-bit will be the best you get. But with S-Log, that's a pretty good combo for the cash.

 

[vcfilms]

Oh wow, somehow i completely missed that the drives are incapable of recording both slow motion and normal frame rates on the same drive! Is that really true?! I don't see it written anywhere on the CD website

yeah I hope they figured out how to do this without having to swap drives as that will be a pain

 

[Gene Sung]

yeah I hope they figured out how to do this without having to swap drives as that will be a pain

Maybe Mitch can answer this because from what I understand, it's a write speed issue and RAW has large Mbps / data rates that require 240fps to be written onto 2 cards

BUT, if they do a 4:2:2 10-bit compressed 240fps, it will obviously have a lower Mbps / data rates. In that case, will it still require 2 cards to do 240fps?

But yes, this is a major pain in the butt to switch cards to do 240fps.

 

[Mitch Gross]

OK, lots of good questions here. I hope I get them all.

First off, what can be recorded to the SSDs. I'm just going to address the FS700 because I think that's all anyone in this particular forum seems to really care about right now.
In 2K RAW, shooting at 200fps and 240fps requires the recording be striped across two SSDs because the data rate is so high. At 240fps onto a pair of 512G SSDs, you get 20 min. of realtime recording. Played back at 24fps, it's 200 minutes.
As long as you are shooting in RAW you can mix and match your frame rates without having to change SSDs.
On initial release of the Odyssey7Q, if you change from shooting 2K RAW to HD video, then you will need to swap the SSDs.
In a firmware update in a month of so this will be changed so that you do not have to change the SSDs when switching between RAW and HD video.

Next answer in another post. Let's keep this easy to follow.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch-
Trying to figure out release timing. I've paid for the Odyssey 7 a month or so ago. If someone were to come in today & order the 7Q would they get theirs first? I ask because I don't want to wait until February if you have a bunch of 7Q orders come in after release and CD ships all 7Q orders prior to 7's. Secondly I asked previously about frame offsets for audio syncing & you mentioned it would come via firmware, but would that firmware be available for the 7 or just the 7Q? Thanks for your help.

Orders are fulfilled in the order they came in, with a significant exception. We do not expect to ship on the Odyssey7 until near the end of December/beginning of January. This is mosty due to allocation of resources in our development team, not in any desire to stoke the 7Q market. We have everybody burning the midnight oil on the 7Q and while most of that work also applies to the 7, we also know that we do have some particular firmware that applies only to that model and we need time to get it finished and tested. It so happens that the timing of release of the 7 is at about the same time we expect to be out of our current backorder of the 7Q, but that really is coincidental. The manufacturing team is different from the development team, and their timetables work differently. As noted previously, we very much expect the preorders to increase significantly once the 7Q begins to ship. In the next 6-8 weeks we plan to fulfill our huge backlog of what's been ordered up to today, but if we don't get more orders during that time we'll be plenty surprised!

As to your second question, that's a good one. We will have firmware updates for both the 7 & 7Q, and while some functionality is of course reserved for the 7Q, I don't see this as being one of them. If anything it is more applicable to the Odyssey7 owner. Odyssey7 is not the red-headed stepchild and we won't be shunning her.

 

[Mitch Gross]

@FDP. I highly doubt 4K RAW will be enabled for the 7Q, otherwise FS700 sales would probably really cut into the F5. The 7Q can do 4K RAW as Dan K. has said, but Sony won't allow them to turn it on.

The Sony solution allows 4K RAW, but very few on this forum want to buy it because it's so expensive and the ergonomics are atrocious. I believe it was set to fail from the beginning to protect the F5.

So I think with the 7Q, 4K 4:2:2 10-bit will be the best you get. But with S-Log, that's a pretty good combo for the cash.

I must say that you are making a number of suppositions here that are not necessarily true or at least do not accurately reflect the facts. Don't be so quick to take 4K RAW off the table. In fact, y'all can feel free to be our cheerleaders for it to Sony. Anything can happen and your support might just be what makes it a reality. FDP makes a very compelling argument as to how the Odyssey7Q recording 4K RAW is good for Sony, as it pushes the sales of FS700 cameras. That sort of pragmatic thinking can have real impact.

Just sayin'. :-D

 

[Mitch Gross]

Maybe Mitch can answer this because from what I understand, it's a write speed issue and RAW has large Mbps / data rates that require 240fps to be written onto 2 cards

BUT, if they do a 4:2:2 10-bit compressed 240fps, it will obviously have a lower Mbps / data rates. In that case, will it still require 2 cards to do 240fps?

But yes, this is a major pain in the butt to switch cards to do 240fps.

It is in fact a write speed issue, which is why it only effects 200 & 240fps. But when going to compressed files there is another issue, which has nothing to do with the SSD.

Compressing a file at 240fps continuously is no easy trick. Now we're not talking about SSD write speed but instead about processor speed. Instead of simply taking a RAW file feed and reformatting it for saving to our SSD, we have to take the RAW file, debayer it, matrix the RGB components into a YCM 4:2:2 image, then compress it while maintaining a specifically mapped bit rate profile for the codec. All at 240fps, which is a huge flood of data blasting through the pipe. It's a huge number crunch to do on the fly and do well. But we're working on it!

 

[brazzam]

Don't be so quick to take 4K RAW off the table. In fact, y'all can feel free to be our cheerleaders for it to Sony. Anything can happen and your support might just be what makes it a reality.

Mitch, thank you for saying this. I would be quite happy to be a cheerleader for 4K RAW on the 7Q. However, Sony doesn't really make it clear on their website how to contact them so that I can be an effective cheerer. Do you, or anyone, have any tips on how to most effectively get a message to them?

 

[Gene Sung]

Mitch, thank you for saying this. I would be quite happy to be a cheerleader for 4K RAW on the 7Q. However, Sony doesn't really make it clear on their website how to contact them so that I can be an effective cheerer. Do you, or anyone, have any tips on how to most effectively get a message to them?

Hey Mitch, regarding what I said before, don't get me wrong. I would KILL for 4K RAW on the FS700. Maybe someone with good tech skills like NextWaveG can start a Petition Power in #'s and as Brazzam says, there's no clear lines of communication with Sony.

 

[vcfilms]

It is in fact a write speed issue, which is why it only effects 200 & 240fps. But when going to compressed files there is another issue, which has nothing to do with the SSD.

Compressing a file at 240fps continuously is no easy trick. Now we're not talking about SSD write speed but instead about processor speed. Instead of simply taking a RAW file feed and reformatting it for saving to our SSD, we have to take the RAW file, debayer it, matrix the RGB components into a YCM 4:2:2 image, then compress it while maintaining a specifically mapped bit rate profile for the codec. All at 240fps, which is a huge flood of data blasting through the pipe. It's a huge number crunch to do on the fly and do well. But we're working on it!

Thanks again Mitch. So if I understand your wording correct. This means we can record 120fps RAW using a single SSD? And awesome you guys are working on a compressed version as well. It would be nice to be able to record 240fps in a 4:2:2 Codec with excellent image quality and not the crazy file sizes.

 

[Gene Sung]

It is in fact a write speed issue, which is why it only effects 200 & 240fps. But when going to compressed files there is another issue, which has nothing to do with the SSD.

Compressing a file at 240fps continuously is no easy trick. Now we're not talking about SSD write speed but instead about processor speed. Instead of simply taking a RAW file feed and reformatting it for saving to our SSD, we have to take the RAW file, debayer it, matrix the RGB components into a YCM 4:2:2 image, then compress it while maintaining a specifically mapped bit rate profile for the codec. All at 240fps, which is a huge flood of data blasting through the pipe. It's a huge number crunch to do on the fly and do well. But we're working on it!

Hey Mitch, would it be easier to do a buffered solution (say 10 sec) record time like what is currently done on the FS700? I've just got used to the buffer and I have to say, I really like the End Trigger function. Plus, I might go too crazy with the 240fps continuous and run out of card space too quickly.

 

[FDP]

I would hope that forums and blog comment threads are a decent starting place to get Sony's attention. Hopefully they are doing their research and paying attention to how potential customers respond to their products (this is as Mitch said largely a thread about the FS700 and the 7Q).


Sony resellers might also be a good place to voice concerns, but only if it clearly affects sales and you are talking to someone who cares. If you buy something and then complain about it that means a lot less than if you make it clear that you won't buy something unless it meets your needs.


As for the F5 vs. FS700 thesis, I'm sure there are internal politics at Sony, but I don't know them. The FS700 is not part of the Cinealta line, and there is a fundamental difference between Sony's prosumer and professional offerings in terms of market.


The F55 seems to endanger F5 sales more than anything else in Sony's inventory. Remember that a fully configured F5 package with a recorder will cost around $30k, this is four times the cost of the FS700. The F55 is a much more rentable camera than the F5 for not that much more money (the FS700 basically doesn't rent in that market).


Hurting FS700 sales won't help the F5, it will just put Sony into a worse position in the prosumer market. With an increasingly crowded prosumer market that is siphoning business from a shrinking and consolidating professional market it makes all the sense in the world to fight hard for prosumer. The FS700 has the potential to be a market leader there, at least until the market is flooded with much cheaper options.

On the 7Q itself, I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered, but is there any ability for the 7Q to bring in timecode from one input and marry it to a separate video input?

Thanks,
FDP

 

[jshbckr]

Hey Mitch, would it be easier to do a buffered solution (say 10 sec) record time like what is currently done on the FS700? I've just got used to the buffer and I have to say, I really like the End Trigger function. Plus, I might go too crazy with the 240fps continuous and run out of card space too quickly.

I think a buffered solution without the 25-30 second "writing" process would be incredible. I use 240fps almost exclusively in End Trigger and I think the 7Q with a 10-second End Trigger mode (with no "writing" downtime) alongside the standard mode it has now would be a great addition. Hopefully there are enough of us that would like a feature like this to get CD to implement it.

 

[m3rob]

I think a buffered solution without the 25-30 second "writing" process would be incredible. I use 240fps almost exclusively in End Trigger and I think the 7Q with a 10-second End Trigger mode (with no "writing" downtime) alongside the standard mode it has now would be a great addition. Hopefully there are enough of us that would like a feature like this to get CD to implement it.

I would also love to have end trigger as an option. Selectable buffered times would be a nice option as well. I am surprised how much I have come to like the end trigger mode. It really helps me economize what I shoot in slomo.

 

[Essami]

I would also love to have end trigger as an option. Selectable buffered times would be a nice option as well. I am surprised how much I have come to like the end trigger mode. It really helps me economize what I shoot in slomo.

+ 1

 

[stefanhuberfilms]

+ 1

+2

 

[jebco]

Odyssey7Q EnduroPower accessory is now available!


Ocean Video is pleased to announce the EnduroPower. It's the perfect accessory for the exciting new Odyssey7 Monitor/Recorder:


• Portability - Compatible with professional battery power from Anton/Bauer Gold Mount or IDX V-Lock
• Durability - Made in the USA from a solid billet of 6061 aircraft grade aluminum, hard coat anodized for additional strength and durability,
• Power - 12 volt D-Tap power output can be used to power accessories or video cameras
• Protection - Extended lower edge provides protection for the Odyssey7's exposed BNC Connectors.
• Lightweight - Unique aluminum design adds less than 16oz to the Odyssey7 package (less battery)
• Flexiblity - More than 35 threaded direct attachment points for mounting accessories such as a wireless video receiver.
• Interchangeable - Compatibility with virtually all camera grip equipment including: Elements, Zacuto, Wooden Camera, RedRock Micro, Solid Camera and many more.



The complete solution with original AntonBauer battery adapter and CD Odyssey7Q power cable retails for under $400.

More details can be found on the Ocean Video website here: http://www.oceanvideo.com/enduro-4-odyssey7.html

The Enduro Power will be available from all major professional video resellers such as Adorama, Abel Cine, BandPro, etc.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Sony has a forum on their own website which is monitored by several Sony employees. Comments there are sure to be noted.