Odyssey New Firmware 2015.8 - High Speed Apple ProRes and Color Vectorscope

Dear Stefan,

Thank you very much for letting us know that this is resolved for you.

And we appreciate your kind comments.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Alan Ting Judson said:
why only one SSD can be mounted for recording 2k high fps prores? is that possible in future firmware update can allow 2 SSD mounted but still can record 2k high fps prores?
Click to expand...
This is a temporary condition.

We discovered a possible issue with spanning files between the two SSDs while in high speed Apple ProRes. The engineers have already corrected it, but the testing process is very thorough and takes a long time. Rather than delay the firmware update, it was decided to disallow spanning of the SSDs in this mode. The fastest way to do that without possibly creating other issues that would require another set of extensive testing was to simply lock out the recording entirely until the second SSD was removed from the Odyssey. It's not ideal but effective and expedient. In the next firmware update this should no longer be necessary.
 
SrtBrad said:
I'm very happy with this update!! Have 1 issue so far that I'm sure I can work out. Haven't had the time as of yet to sort it out.

1. Video out of the 7Q+ with the 15.08 firmware to the Small HD502 with the new 2.0 firmware doesn't work with the SDI cables?
Click to expand...


I've had the same issue since I got my Small HD502, which was before the 2.0 firmware, and before 2015.08 on the Odyssey 7Q:
- the 502 can't see the SDI signal out of the 7Q, but it works with HDMI, and it works when I loop through the SDI signal (ex: O7Q > other SDI monitor > Small HD502 = it works)

I've since contacted both CD and Small HD.. it seems a weird compatibility issue..

Dan or Mitch: if you guys find anything about that, please let us know..
 
Dear Martin,

We are checking out the Top Download and comparing it to all of the other ways one can download this firmware version 2015.8.

Our team is has been working on this this morning.

In case this does not make sense to others, there are at least three places on our 2015.8 firmware download page where one can click to download our latest firmware. We are making certain that they allow download the exact same copy of the firmware.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Hi Mitch,

I have a technical question regarding the FS700 RAW output.
In the presentation video (https://youtu.be/f0lw3KPhzYk?t=5m40s) you show that the picture profiles control how the ProRes output looks like. Yet on the screen (9:45) you can see that the transmitted data is 12 bit linear.
I wonder how that works? Does the FS700 send out 12 bit raw (not debayered) with the selected gamma applied?
This would actually be really good, since 12 bit S-Log2 is containing much more info than 12 bit linear, which can take about 8 stops of good gradation before the bit depth gets really thin on the bottom.

Thank you and BR
Michael
 
Minh said:
I've had the same issue since I got my Small HD502, which was before the 2.0 firmware, and before 2015.08 on the Odyssey 7Q:
- the 502 can't see the SDI signal out of the 7Q, but it works with HDMI, and it works when I loop through the SDI signal (ex: O7Q > other SDI monitor > Small HD502 = it works)

I've since contacted both CD and Small HD.. it seems a weird compatibility issue..

Dan or Mitch: if you guys find anything about that, please let us know..
Click to expand...

Dear Minh,

Our Lab team is going to, or have already tested this.

I just do not know the results yet.

Mitch or I will report the results as soon as we know.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
MichaelFischer.at said:
Hi Mitch,

I have a technical question regarding the FS700 RAW output.
In the presentation video (https://youtu.be/f0lw3KPhzYk?t=5m40s) you show that the picture profiles control how the ProRes output looks like. Yet on the screen (9:45) you can see that the transmitted data is 12 bit linear.
I wonder how that works? Does the FS700 send out 12 bit raw (not debayered) with the selected gamma applied?
This would actually be really good, since 12 bit S-Log2 is containing much more info than 12 bit linear, which can take about 8 stops of good gradation before the bit depth gets really thin on the bottom.

Thank you and BR
Michael
Click to expand...
Here is how it works.

The RAW data is the RAW data. Some info is baked in as it is in just about every RAW system out there, but the gamma curve is untouched. Sony clearly states that FS RAW (both the FS7 and the FS700) is 12-bit linear, and they are not lying.

But there is other information that travels along with the RAW sensor data. A tag noting the Picture Profile setting is also sent. In the Odyssey, we apply an S-Log2 gradient curve to the RAW data as part of our transform. Or we can choose to apply a REC709 or a Rec709(800%). This is only for shooting in RAW->ProRes. We have to apply some form of gamma curve otherwise it would just be linear data and trust me that isn't what you want to see. I dealt with that enough back in my Phantom days where even big post facilities didn't understand what they were looking at when they saw this. In RAW we leave it alone.

So it is 12-bit linear and as you say, there isn't a lot of info at the bottom of the exposure range. That's why we suggest overexposing and then printing down, so that the material with little bit depth gets sent into darkness along with the noise.
 
A little technical clarification

A little technical clarification

I was told I'd been mentioned over at the Atomos forum so popped over and took a look. I think there's some info cross-posted from some responses I've given here, but I think there may be some misunderstandings. This is just to clear up some technical info and I hope it is helpful to all.

I think there's been some overlap about SATA bus capacity and processing capacities. I have stated that it is impossible to record uncompressed 12-bit RAW above 4K30p if one is only using a single SATA connection. Please note that this is discussing the recording of RAW data files. A SATA bus is how an SSD is connected to a recorder. The Odyssey7Q+ has two SSD slots with a separate SATA connection for each. Because of this the device has the capacity to record 12-bit uncompressed RAW up to 4K60p. This is simply math; it is about how much data can be passed through a SATA bus.

This is separate from processing power within a recorder, and it has nothing to do with the recording of Apple ProRes files. Those files are considerably smaller and a single SATA connection can pass either 4K60p or HD240p framerate without issue. Whether a particular SSD can maintain speed in recording that data rate is a separate question. But the bigger question is processing power of the brain of the device itself. It is actually far less processor intensive to record a RAW file than it is to take that RAW file, process it into video, and then encode it into Apple ProRes. And it is always more difficult the higher the frame rate and the higher the resolution. Everything must be done in realtime, so the faster the frame rate the less time the processor has to compute everything. The higher the resolution the more information has to be run through.

Apple enforces a narrow window on the data size of each frame, so when fast changes or large amounts of changes happen from frame to frame (my favorite acid tests are leafy trees blowing in the wind and choppy wavelets on open water) it is a major challenge for a codec. If the processor isn't fast enough then blockiness can occur and mess up the image, or the file becomes too large and that's a data rate violation, or the processor just can't keep up and it skips a frame. Convergent Design would never allow any of these to happen and we have a powerful processor and very clever engineers so the Odyssey can handle high resolution and/or high frame rates. It's not that easy to replicate, which is why we have the only device in the world that can record HD240p Apple ProRes. In fact we're the only company who has ever claimed we would do it, and it was a massive effort that took a long time to achieve.

Another question was 4K input over SDI. The FS7 (with XDCA Extension) and FS700 can output 4K60p 12-bit RAW over a single 3G-SDI connection. They can do this because it is a mildly compressed form of RAW, and because RAW by nature is 1/3 the size of video of the same resolution (it is one channel of Bayer-pattern data for each photo site v. three channels of the same resolution, representing red, green and blue values). So while these cameras only need a single 3G-SDI feed to send up to 4K60p to the Odyssey7Q+, a camera that outputs 4K SMPTE-standard video (not RAW) such as the Sony F55 requires a pair of 3G-SDI cables (aka Dual-Link) to deliver 4K30p and four 3G-SDI cables (Quad-Link) to deliver 4K60p.

And other cameras are different. The Canon C500 delivers 4K30p in 10-bit uncompressed RAW over a single 3G-SDI link, and with Dual-Link 3G-SDI can deliver 4K60p RAW. The upcoming C300 markII will be able to output a similar 4K30p 10-bit uncompressed RAW over a single 3G-SDI connection, but in SMPTE video output mode it will require a Dual-Link of 3G-SDI to send out that same 4K30p. It can get quite confusing to keep track of all of these numbers and formats.
 
so what should i say, this update is just so insanely good!

4K 60p and 1080 240p continous! the fear of the normally recorded media eating up the drive space to record to the spanned ssd's is gone! yay!

thank you CD!

that really makes you guys stand out from the competition!
 
Mitch gross:
4K/60p for PMW-F5? Now that 4k50P is available on the FS700, can this be implemented for the F55(5)?
 
Hi. I made a test about energy consumption. With 2*256 GB CD SSDs.
In stand-by, if you "HIDE" the screen, you save more or less 1 Watt. Same thing if you use only 1 SSD in the Odyssey : you save 1 Watt.

Hide / Stand-by / Record (with 2 SSDs in the O7Q) :

4K 24p Raw : 11W / 12W / 14.8W (14.2W with only 1 SSD)
4K 60p Raw : ------------ 19.2
4K burst 120fps Raw : ---- 18.4
2K 240fps Raw : 12.7 / 12.7 / 17.7

4K Prores 24p : 12 / 13.9 / 15.4 (14.1W with only 1 SSD)
4K Prores 60p : 12.3 / 13.1 / 18.8 (17.5W with only 1 SSD)

When you play a clip, something between 13W and 15W .
 
Last edited:
Cyril-from-France said:
Hi. I made a test about energy consumption. With 2*256 GB CD SSDs.
In stand-by, if you "HIDE" the screen, you save more or less 1 Watt. Same thing if you use only 1 SSD in the Odyssey : you save 1 Watt. .
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this! Anybody knows how much extra power the Samsung 850 EVO uses compared to CD SSDs? Is it enough difference to affect the selection of lightweight batteries that can be used? Or does it not matter? Particularly thinking of Gimbal use where lightweight batteries are often worth the hassle.
 
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