Odyssey 7Q Firmware 2.11.110

S H I T Happens and Absurb Customers

S H I T Happens and Absurb Customers

Mitch Gross said:
Don't worry, i was just venting a bit. There is a point that no matter what I or CD do people will complain, and I just wanted to point out the absurdity of some of the statements made here...
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"S H I T Happens" and now customers say "absurd" statements.

Ironic and absurd considering C-D's delivery track record.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I believe the FS7 offers M-LUTS (monitoring LUTS), not recordable LUTS.

A Zone System exposure tool may be possible for the Odyssey, but really it offers little advantage over our current false color display. RED may or may not own this particular implementation, but it certainly isn't a new idea and there are several examples of prior art. Panasonic had something a decade ago and Leader has a much-touted function that is VERY similar in its scopes. I'm sure there are others as well. Nice to see it implemented in a camera, but as I said it really isn't that much different from False Color mode.
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You can turn on MLUTs for "SDI & internal recording" I assume that applies it to the internal recording, no? It's the same as on the F5/F55.
 
Reading this a second time, I have an idea for you...

Reading this a second time, I have an idea for you...

Mitch Gross said:
I'm curious, just what do you actually want me to say?
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Say what you will do and then do it!

Mitch Gross said:
s*%t happens. Issues arise and we figure then out. Don't know hw long the process will take because we don't know what will crop up. If you don't think this is the way everything works then you simply don't know what is involved. Some of you compare the process to your own work bidding, shooting and posting out productions. These are not comparable. I have been in both worlds and I can tell you that the variables of production pale compared to that of advanced programing.
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Really, the best you can communicate is "S H I T Happens" - You make C-D's development team look like idiots. And then you belittle the process of film making by saying it isn't as difficult as advanced programming - all in six sentences. Bravo!

Mitch Gross said:
So do you want me to say absolutely nothing from now on? Shall I shut off such communication from Convergent Design? I don't really think you would prefer that.
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Say what C-D is going to do and then do it! We'd prefer reality instead of hype and BS!

Mitch Gross said:
New features besides 4K ProRes are developed concurrently. Different engineers work in different areas. Some of these are functionality we have discussed here on this forum. For instance, one of our engineers does no work on 4K ProRes but he does do work on the user interface. I think people might like to see what he's done. Should I suggest to our team that we pull everything that has nothing to do with 4K ProRes? I don't think anyone wants that.
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Do what many high-tech software companies do - planned quarterly releases or bi-annual releases. Or even release features when they are completed and ready. If your development team can't hit an exact date for a feature release, then communicate a month or quarter when the feature will be released. Else say "Compressed 4K will be released sometime in 20xx." At least you'll be delivering and not hyping.
 
I got to try out the fs7 a few days ago and was fairly impressed. And now I'm hearing they may be shipping early (now) in large numbers. Frankly if the 7q won't do 4k 120fps and 2k 240fps in prores I think I'll probably sell my fs700+7q and get an fs7. Basicaly those are nearly the only benefits the fs700+7q has over the fs7 (maybe also size but not shape). The fs7 on the other hand has a lot over the fs700.
 
nyvz said:
I got to try out the fs7 a few days ago and was fairly impressed. And now I'm hearing they may be shipping early (now) in large numbers. Frankly if the 7q won't do 4k 120fps and 2k 240fps in prores I think I'll probably sell my fs700+7q and get an fs7. Basicaly those are nearly the only benefits the fs700+7q has over the fs7 (maybe also size but not shape). The fs7 on the other hand has a lot over the fs700.
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Hey Noah,

What did you like / dislike about the FS7? Did you get to shoot any footage with it?

I think I'm going to just keep the 7Q. It's still useful for 240fps and RAW which is actually pretty awesome. Plus, I'm wondering if the FS7 image is going to be as clean as the 7Q Pro-Res? The 7Q Pro-Res is so, so clean. I'm wondering if Sony will be able to match it on the FS7 internally? I guess we'll wait and see.

Plus, I think when the FS7 comes out, I'm only going to be able to get pennies for my FS700 and 7Q on the used market. Might as well have a B-Cam. :)

Does anyone know if the FS7 is going to be 16 bit or 12 bit RAW?
 
gene_can_sing said:
Hey Noah,

What did you like / dislike about the FS7? Did you get to shoot any footage with it?

I think I'm going to just keep the 7Q. It's still useful for 240fps and RAW which is actually pretty awesome. Plus, I'm wondering if the FS7 image is going to be as clean as the 7Q Pro-Res? The 7Q Pro-Res is so, so clean. I'm wondering if Sony will be able to match it on the FS7 internally? I guess we'll wait and see.

Plus, I think when the FS7 comes out, I'm only going to be able to get pennies for my FS700 and 7Q on the used market. Might as well have a B-Cam. :)

Does anyone know if the FS7 is going to be 16 bit or 12 bit RAW?
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I liked that it had everything I wanted and a useable form factor. Truthfully I prefer the fs700 form factor but I'm weird and once you add the 7q it's not as nice... It comes with a nice evf with well designed mounting that easily folds away. It's nice the camera packs up pretty small. I like the idea of good ~30MBps 4k with the option of 12MBps long gop 4k for long form recording. 4k dng and 4k prores (such as in the fs700+7q) is 350MBps and 100MBps respectively, both really too huge for my uses (and most people's, I imagine). And the in-camera lut capabilities mean I never have to sactifice image quality and color performance for ease of workflow. If only it had the 4k 120fps burst and 2k 240fps...

FS7 RAW will be the same as FS700 RAW since their formats are identical. That means it's 12bit compressed RAW over 3G SDI. Seems it's also already gamma encoded (slog2/3?) so at least it should hold up a lot better than 12bit linear RAW.
 
Herschel Horton said:
you belittle the process of film making by saying it isn't as difficult as advanced programming - all in six sentences. Bravo!
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I did not say that. I said that the number of variables in production is much smaller than what occurs in advanced programming.

Perhaps you are unaware that in my previous career I was the DP on two dozen features, plus worked 100s if not 1000s of commercials, documentaries, music videos, corporates, etc., etc. Production can be very challenging and I did not and would not belittle it. But it is also not comparable to advanced programming, which has far different parameters. I am not saying one is easier or harder, I am saying that they are not comparable as they are very different processes.

Stating "say what you will do and then do it" is very simplistic. It means that we cannot really communicate in any real depth or with much substance. It is about as effective as "just say no to drugs".
 
Martin.G said:
Is the update far away?


I would really like to have some usefull 4K option next week.
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prepare for the only 4K option you have.


It was at "coming soon"-level, not "available next week"-state.

If Mitch would update Release Notes and Manual this weekend (after hugging Kids and Dog back from Toronto), he would not tell stories about "advanced programming is unpredictable like throwing dices and spinning wheel of fortune - you never know when you hit the jackpot". Reading those fatalistic statements, the September Firmware Release might been postponed to November (or later).
 
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I dont have a 4K option yet. At least not one that allows a reasonable budget. Im not an artistic music video photographer working for pennies. So either 4K2HD or 4K compressed.

The 4K has been confirmed done, its another feature thats doing the hold up, and CD promised to kick out bugging features to avoid delays like this. I expect thats what has been in the works the last few weeks, kicking the extra feature out of the firmware and do a 4K ProRes standalone rollout.
 
Yes, that would be my expectation, too.
Especially, since Atomos Shogun is approaching fast.

But they seem to follow different objectives (try to fix the trouble).
And we are just a small community of users and they are in touch with much more, that seem not to care about 4K compressed recording. 4K compressed recording seems to be one of their top priorities but they do not get functions unbundled (which is a matter of software architecture and proper code design).
 
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Maybe its the A7s 4K feature they work on.

I dont know. Just hoping since i have one on my to-buy list for the coming month.
 
Did i miss something in the A7s discussion? I only read that Mitch said O7Q would record A7s 4K over HDMI 1.4 at some point.

I guess 25/30fps is enough from the tiny body. 50/60 can be done from our FS700 no matter.
 
nyvz said:
FS7 RAW will be the same as FS700 RAW since their formats are identical. That means it's 12bit compressed RAW over 3G SDI. Seems it's also already gamma encoded (slog2/3?) so at least it should hold up a lot better than 12bit linear RAW.
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Thanks for your thoughts on the FS7. What does your above statement mean? Does the FS7 not have linear RAW? What are the benefits of a none linear RAW?
 
Martin.G said:
I dont have a 4K option yet. At least not one that allows a reasonable budget. Im not an artistic music video photographer working for pennies. So either 4K2HD or 4K compressed.

The 4K has been confirmed done, its another feature thats doing the hold up, and CD promised to kick out bugging features to avoid delays like this. I expect thats what has been in the works the last few weeks, kicking the extra feature out of the firmware and do a 4K ProRes standalone rollout.
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I'm pretty sure CD only said that '4K compressed is done' not 'Sony FS700 4K Raw to 4K compressed is done' - the two are not the same since the former means Apple prores from a standard 4K source and the latter involves a whole lot of extra work. At the end of the day the Odyssey is not an accessory to the FS700, it supports a whole host of cameras, many of which don't simply output 4K Raw.

For all we know they had 4K compressed (i.e. standard 4K source to Apple Pro res) sorted but decided to push it back a bit to get Sony FS700 4K Raw to 4K compressed into the release to stop all the moaning on here!
 
Well, a little moaning should not be surprising, if they market ProRes 4K recording out of Sony FS700 RAW even on their own, official corporate website:

https://odyssey7q.com/products/odyssey7q/sony-fs700.html

Convergent Design's website said:
4K Raw to 4K Apple ProRes up to 30fps (4K ProRes derived from the Raw)
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Just to remind, as time travels fast.

October 24, 2013 (before initial shipping = day one):
Mitch Gross said:
On day one the FS700 recording option is indeed only the 2K, albeit up to 240fps. We are in negotiations now to be allowed to release one of our 4K recording solutions on day one as well but with that landing next week the timeline is rather tight.

We have several solutions for 4K recording. We may have one available immediately (1). We should have another available within about a month (2). Can't be more specific because no matter what we have to deal with other companies and we cannot speak for their timelines. But we believe it should be very soon.
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(1) available Feb 2014, option for 4K RAW .DNG
(2) not available until now, option for 4K ProRes.

4K Compressed recording for Sony FS700 is announced as should be arriving "very soon" since one year, now.

If we could send a message back to history, what would Colin of 2013 been thinking?
Colinelves said:
so no 4K at all from the FS700, not even CNG, until Jan 2014 at the earliest, possibly not until April?! That sucks, I thought you guys had 4K working already. Haven't you already posted some footage?
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I have no doubt that we will receive this option within weeks now, as they solved ProRes HD and got certification for ProRes 4K. But it has already been a painful time of waiting and the progress did not accelerate during the summer.
 
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