Odyssey 7Q Firmware 2.11.110

Pgale said:
On a related subject - are there any plans to allow some kind of balanced SSD recording mode where alternate takes (HD prores) get spread across the two SSD's?

I ask as I only currently have 2 x 256GB drives. When I was away filming in Barbados last week, I nearly filled one SSD with interview footage. When the unexpected opportunity arose to film some beach scenes in 240fps, I was scuppered as I didn't have the space available on both drives. Even the ability to select the recording drive without physically swapping them would have helped a lot I think.
Click to expand...
Yes, we do have a plan in mind for this. It's a bit of code wrangling though so we have to get some other things sorted first. It means some changes to file offloads as well, since file order would jump back and forth between two SSDs.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Yup, just assumptions and thoughts.

We do not aim to mislead or deceive... This was at the start of IBC and I'm sure you all understand that there is a great deal of media attention paid at that time. When we made the announcement we fully believed we were still on track for the firmware release to come by the end of the month, just a couple of weeks later... Sorry.
Click to expand...

So, I've learned the hard way not to every communicate promised capabilities to customers because salespeole are the most optimistic bunch of people in the world. It's the nature of business. It's the nature of marketers since the dawn of time.

And now I don't even feel comfortable to share future promised capabilities of the O7Q with my production team as well. As a Cinematographer I'll just tell my Directing and Producers what I am capable of doing RIGHT NOW. Our production team may loose a client here or there, but at least we can feel good and comfortable what we say can be trusted. At the end of the day, saying what we will do and doing what we say is a major reason people continue to do business with us.

C-D did what many vendors do - use a highly visible event to get free publicity. Mitch can testify that they "fully believed" they were on track. The reality is that developers can't say "No, we need more time!" because Marketers need to get people to buy now!

I can tell you this C-D. If you want my business in 5 or 10 years you better get BETTER at more accurately projecting product release dates and not succumbing to the shortsighted strategy of getting free publicity now. The film and video production community is relatively small and we have long memories, or at least I do.

"Say what you will do, do what you say" -Some Smart Business Man
"Under promise and over deliver" -The Same Smart Business Man
 
+1 To do otherwise, is to show a disregard for your customer base.

Herschel Horton said:
So, I've learned the hard way not to every communicate promised capabilities to customers because salespeole are the most optimistic bunch of people in the world. It's the nature of business. It's the nature of marketers since the dawn of time.

And now I don't even feel comfortable to share future promised capabilities of the O7Q with my production team as well. As a Cinematographer I'll just tell my Directing and Producers what I am capable of doing RIGHT NOW. Our production team may loose a client here or there, but at least we can feel good and comfortable what we say can be trusted. At the end of the day, saying what we will do and doing what we say is a major reason people continue to do business with us.

C-D did what many vendors do - use a highly visible event to get free publicity. Mitch can testify that they "fully believed" they were on track. The reality is that developers can't say "No, we need more time!" because Marketers need to get people to buy now!

I can tell you this C-D. If you want my business in 5 or 10 years you better get BETTER at more accurately projecting product release dates and not succumbing to the shortsighted strategy of getting free publicity now. The film and video production community is relatively small and we have long memories, or at least I do.

"Say what you will do, do what you say" -Some Smart Business Man
"Under promise and over deliver" -The Same Smart Business Man
Click to expand...
 
Well I won't be satisfied til my 7Q's make my coffee in the morning....
I've shot two features with the 7Q since I took delivery. One with FS700 recording 2K RAW and one with C500 recording Prores. Did the 7q work? Yes. Were they perfect? No, but each firmware update has added functrionality and stability.

In my opinion the ONLY manufacturer these days that delivers a truly production ready product from day one is Arri with the Alexa. And they roll out updates too. So price out the Alexa XT (I was quoted about $120K out the door, ready to shoot) and weigh your options.

We could have all done worse- we could have bought Reds...
 
I don't understand you guys anymore.

You seem to know a lot about how "marketing" and "business" works these days. You are angry, because
the O7Q does not have the features that you want yet.

I don't know anything about business - I don't do the big jobs.
But I know one thing: I buy my equipment because I want it for something it can do now!
We bought the 7Q when it got the 4k2HD ProRes because that'S what we wanted. But we
were waiting until this worked, because it didn't make any sense to buy it and wait for CD
to deliver it at some point.

It's the same people, that bought the FS700 at the beginning, because Sony said there will
be a firmware update that enables 4k. I still work with my FS100...
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
I don't know anything about business - I don't do the big jobs.
But I know one thing: I buy my equipment because I want it for something it can do now!
We bought the 7Q when it got the 4k2HD ProRes because that'S what we wanted. But we
were waiting until this worked, because it didn't make any sense to buy it and wait for CD
to deliver it at some point..
Click to expand...

No Erik, for me it was quite different. I made a pre-order assuming that there will be a delivery bottleneck.
The features we still miss were announced for later this year in 2013 and as my dealer ask in January 2014
if I keep my order as he has got 5 pcs and I am no. 4 on the list. I never had the idea that it will take so long.
And the fact that I kept my order is no exculpation for CD's great promises and slow fulfilling.

For me also it was a surprise that there is only REC709, REC709 (800%) and sLOG2 recording.
Was anybody aware of that? REC709 is still not usable so there is only sLOG.

Knowing all this before I probably would have switched to a C300 at one of their price drops
instead of keeping the FS700 and buying the 7Q. As Martin wrote: I've learned my lesson.
 
Of course I would have been dissapointed, too.

And it's a special thing if you have to preorder an item to get it in time
for the next project.

But i never did serious projects without intensively testing the equipment before!

We did a long feature film beginning last october. We didn't have enough money to
rent proper equipment for the long time this shooting has taken.
We waited for the BM4k because they announced it for august/september. By the
end of august we just decided to take the BMCC without 4k because we needed at
least 2 weeks to check our workflow with this kind of RAW-box. And this was a very
wise decision. We needed 4 weeks to find out how to rig the camera, that 2 SSDs were
broken, that we needed very fast RAIDs for data-transfer (thunderbolt) and many things
more.

This is a lesson you have to learn, when you want things to "just work" during the production.
No experiments with your equipment right before production.

I'm still satisfied with my FS100 because I know the flaws and drawbacks and how to avoid them.
This always helps much more than having the latest equipment.

When a friend of mine asked if he should sell the C300 and buy the FS700 because of the 4k2HD
in ProRes feature, I told him to wait till it works and not buy it because it's an announced feature.

Announcing means nothing more than a declaration of intention.

If it doesn't work ever or if there are problems while trying to do so - you can't really worry about it.

I don't blame anybody for believing in the announcements of CD. It's just that you guys take these
announcements to serious.
 
Clermond said:
For me also it was a surprise that there is only REC709, REC709 (800%) and sLOG2 recording.
Was anybody aware of that? REC709 is still not usable so there is only sLOG.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is also something i am wondering about the FS7. If there are Cinegammas i definetly rather would have the option to go almost straight from camera to internet at some of the lesser paid jobs. We can talk about artsy control and flat profiles till we get green, but in the end i am primarily a producer and i need my numbers to add up. (I love that norwegian in the series Hell on Wheels!)
 
For the extra headroom just-in-case, yeah, i would like that.

I would rather have the 4K2HD quality and 10 bit headroom, and the price is not that much higher than for AVCHD risk.
 
Yes, it does.

But if you use the O7Q the benefit is that you have the full dynamic range of the sensor
thorough the slog2 profile. It doesn't make much sense to me to use the RAW output
and the O7Q and then record in a limited bandwith (such as Rec709).

If you need a quick turnaround you can always use the internal AVCHD or use some
quick LUTs for fast grading in post. Anyway, you have to compress the material again
or do you want to go to internet with 10bit ProRes?
In the end the delogging should be applied in post rather than being burnt in before
it's written to the memory.

The FS7 will be the quick workhorse that can have different gamma curves applied before
being written to file even in 10bit. That's part of the whole story about the FS7.
On the other hand you don't have the flexibility of the FS700/O7Q that can write down
RAW in dpx or 10bit ProRes (no 4k till today).
If you want that with the FS7 you'll need the additional XDCA-FS7 and the O7Q.
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
But if you use the O7Q the benefit is that you have the full dynamic range of the sensor
thorough the slog2 profile.
Click to expand...

But you can get the full dynamic range of the sensor with slog2 recording internally to XAVC can't you.
I think the point is that you have a whole load of options, so if you have an FS7 and O7Q you've got all bases covered - shoot REC709 internally for cheap, quick turnaround / web stuff; shoot slog2 XAVC internally for high quality stuff that's gonna be graded; shoot RAW if you need even more control and have time and budget and expertise and requirement to get the best out of it.
Steve
 
Slog3 is a more balanced kind of log profile, especially with the cine colour profile (instead of s-gamut).
It's easier to expose right and easier to grade in post. You'll loose some highlight detail compared
to Slog2 but you have better shadow detail. Some people think it gives you more noise, but this
is not true.
It's just another gamma interpretation of the same sensor data.

If the internal Slog3 of the FS7 is really as good as the FS700/O7Q, we don't know. It's just theory
until now. You need processing power and a good codec. O7Q gives lots of both, especially when the
4k2ProRes will work.

I think it will be comparable, but it won't be the same.

FS7 + XDCA-FS7 + O7Q will give you the most flexibility, but is it worth the upgrade from the FS700/7Q
combo?

The FS7 is prepared to produce good footage out of the box - 10bit internal XAVC with the profile you want.
Personally I see me using the cinegammas more than slog.
When it comes to RAW recording, the FS700R is more or less equal to FS7 + XDCA-FS7. If I were a RAW shooter
I would just keep my FS700 with the O7Q and skip the FS7.

If you search for a camera, that "just" works without external stuff and rigging and you're gonna produce mostly
10bit for yourself or non-TV clients, the FS7 is the way to go.

I just don't understand why many FS700 owners are going nervous without knowing if the FS7 produces any better
or at least equal footage for much more money (FS7 + XDCA-FS7 + V-Mount batteries + O7Q vs. FS700R + O7Q and
cheapo NP-Fs).
 
Most of FS700 owners are believe it or not, not raw shooters.

Thats why i want the FS7. So much easier, hopefully same quality though. Or at least very close to 4K2HD.

I dont care about 4K raw at all. Too much data.
 
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