Non union pay.

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
How do you guys work out pay for your leads on a small indie feature for non union actors?

I was thinking of basing the scale off the sag ultra low budget scale. Do you pay by the day? do you pay a lump sum? do you pay them up front? in installments? at the end of production?
 
For the (few) projects that I have paid my cast/crew, I paid the actors a prorated portion of their total salary on a per-day basis. For the crew, I paid them their full amount at the end of the final day they'd be working for us.
As for the amount, I have figured out what I could pay, told them up front and let them decide whether they wanted that amount or not. I've never negotiated before, but let them know up front what I could afford. I have never used union people, either as cast or crew.

Lee
 
I was budgeting about 75-100 a day, plus meals, lodging. And a bonus at the end of the production from the premiere profits. I was trying to see what an actor is going to find is "good" or a slap in the face. Most of my cast are fairly new. They are good actors and have the training but don't have many high profile projects under their belt yet.
 
I have found if you are upfront & honest about what you can really afford, no matter what the actual amount is, they won't take it as a slap in the face. When you start dicking around, or paying parts of your actors/crew one thing and others either are getting a disproportional rate or aren't paid at all, thats when people get upset.

Lee
 
$100/day or $100/day + $16 for pension if they are SAG, be aware though that you will have to provide the bond so your initial out of pocket for SAG actors would be $216/day (though you get the $100/day back after you finish shooting). And don't try to go non-sag as even the horrible actors are SAG nowdays so i can only imagine what the non-SAG are like.
 
"And don't try to go non-sag as even the horrible actors are SAG nowdays so i can only imagine what the non-SAG are like."
Don't believe that for a second :)
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Would love to see someone prove me wrong...
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Wouldn't be the first time someone has done that.


If I remember correctly, you said that I couldn't shoot a feature film and be successful with it without doing a very specific set of things.

I pretty much broke every rule, and not only did I make back my budget. I also had some profit, and I got DVD distribution. Oh, and I spent what? 10 grand?

I didn't use any union actors. I didn't have a grip truck, or any of the things you said were a MUST. I'm on my 2nd one now, I've got investors backing it this time (although still small), and I've got even more support than I did last time because I treat people with respect and do my best to get the word out about my films.

I don't live in NY, like I told you back in the beginning. That stuff doesn't apply to me.

Not one person who auditioned for me was SAG.. all were SAG-E.. Hell I'm SAG-E. Its just a card. Anybody who does Hollywood extra work at any regular interval can become SAG. It says 0 about your acting ability. The closest hub to me is Atlanta, and if you became SAG here, you'd run out of work fast unless you want to be a pro extra, because the only thing thats SAG here is big budget hollywood productions.

I've got several cast members that are easily just as good as any SAG actor I've ever seen. One of them has 16+ years of film experience, and she isn't SAG.

I think you need to broaden your horizons, and think outside the box a little.
 
Azmyth said:
I've got several cast members that are easily just as good as any SAG actor I've ever seen. One of them has 16+ years of film experience, and she isn't SAG.

I think you need to broaden your horizons, and think outside the box a little.
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If your location is Georgia, I believe that SAG can not fine/reprimand members in Georgia for working on non-union projects. In California, things are different. And so the notice of 'non-union' means, that someone doesn't want to go through the paper work to get waivers for SAG members, if they can't 'pay them now' according to SAG scales.

I would like to have projects with enough money to pay 'scale', but I don't so, that eliminates union workers.

The other problem area is insurance. Most no/low budget productions don't have the business setup, nor the money to get insurance. This limits access to locations, especially if film permits are required, and especially, especially if public land/facilities are used, and one can't get a rider for the government entity.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
If your location is Georgia, I believe that SAG can not fine/reprimand members in Georgia for working on non-union projects.
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I'm not sure about this. I know the SAG actors from Evil Dead were fined for working on it, and that was a Michigan/Tennessee production.

Granted, this was the late 70s/early 80s, so things may have changed since then.
 
Gary Huff said:
I'm not sure about this. I know the SAG actors from Evil Dead were fined for working on it, and that was a Michigan/Tennessee production.

Granted, this was the late 70s/early 80s, so things may have changed since then.
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No worries. None of my cast are SAG and they are great actors.. Good example..

NSFW (harsh language)

http://vimeo.com/26912636

Unless you have some REAAAALLYYY harsh idea of what good acting is.. I'd say she's pretty darn good.
 
Gary Huff said:
I'm not sure about this. I know the SAG actors from Evil Dead were fined for working on it, and that was a Michigan/Tennessee production.

Granted, this was the late 70s/early 80s, so things may have changed since then.
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In the case of Michigan, it is a 'non-right-to-work' state. "right to work" is pretty clear on the issue of a production company may hire non-union workers, even if it has a SAG agreement in place. Since 'right-to-work', means that an employee need not be a union member to work, and an employer may not require membership for employment.

What is not clear to me at the moment is from the 'employee and union member's' perspective, if the 'global rule one', that is 'no SAG member may work for a non-union production', is enforceable in such as state... It sounds like that would 'prohibit' a worker from working, which goes against the 'right to work'.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
In the case of Michigan, it is a 'non-right-to-work' state. "right to work" is pretty clear on the issue of a production company may hire non-union workers, even if it has a SAG agreement in place. Since 'right-to-work', means that an employee need not be a union member to work, and an employer may not require membership for employment.

What is not clear to me at the moment is from the 'employee and union member's' perspective, if the 'global rule one', that is 'no SAG member may work for a non-union production', is enforceable in such as state... It sounds like that would 'prohibit' a worker from working, which goes against the 'right to work'.
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I lied, we had one person audition who was AFTRA and I asked her and she said "YES" she could work on the project without any issues, should she be cast.
 
Azmyth said:
Wouldn't be the first time someone has done that.


If I remember correctly, you said that I couldn't shoot a feature film and be successful with it without doing a very specific set of things.

I pretty much broke every rule, and not only did I make back my budget. I also had some profit, and I got DVD distribution. Oh, and I spent what? 10 grand?

I didn't use any union actors. I didn't have a grip truck, or any of the things you said were a MUST. I'm on my 2nd one now, I've got investors backing it this time (although still small), and I've got even more support than I did last time because I treat people with respect and do my best to get the word out about my films.

I don't live in NY, like I told you back in the beginning. That stuff doesn't apply to me.

Not one person who auditioned for me was SAG.. all were SAG-E.. Hell I'm SAG-E. Its just a card. Anybody who does Hollywood extra work at any regular interval can become SAG. It says 0 about your acting ability. The closest hub to me is Atlanta, and if you became SAG here, you'd run out of work fast unless you want to be a pro extra, because the only thing thats SAG here is big budget hollywood productions.

I've got several cast members that are easily just as good as any SAG actor I've ever seen. One of them has 16+ years of film experience, and she isn't SAG.

I think you need to broaden your horizons, and think outside the box a little.
Click to expand...

And i have backers with money despite not having officially directed a feature - who's your point? There are many ways to do things, if you want to keep on rolling the stone up the hill it's your choice. As mentioned above SAG means nothing other then some kind of commitments on part of the actor (good or bad) to their craft. Obviously you can find good non-sag actors but if they are so hard to find in SAG world they must be that much more harder to find in non-sag.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
And i have backers with money despite not having officially directed a feature - who's your point? There are many ways to do things, if you want to keep on rolling the stone up the hill it's your choice. As mentioned above SAG means nothing other then some kind of commitments on part of the actor (good or bad) to their craft. Obviously you can find good non-sag actors but if they are so hard to find in SAG world they must be that much more harder to find in non-sag.
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My Point is, as you said.. there's no right or wrong to any of this. You do what works for you. So, telling people that casting non SAG actors is a bad idea because there are no good non SAG actors is false.. as you just admitted to. They aren't hard to find if your in the right area. I've just cast 13 of them. Your waiting for the big backers and the "whole 9 yards". I'm making movies that I want to make, and people are enjoying them. That's my goal. so my work is done. I didn't pay anybody last time. This time I'm paying my actors.. seems like a pretty big "Step" to me.
 
"prove you wrong?" I left the schoolyards 30 years ago. The last feature I made I used one sag actor amongst 15 featured roles. The acting was praised in the ny times, la times, new york magazine, LA WEEKLY. I just completed another feature where I think 2 people were sag out of 20 roles. Anyway.....
 
My standard rate for "leads" is $100 a day plus expenses. Non-speaking or minor roles generally don't get paid.
I would NEVER do a SAG production until I was at a WAY higher budget level so I could afford to pay someone to deal with all their bulls**t paperwork.
 
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