NOISE in BLACKS

S

steadicamsteel

Guest
Has anyone had the same experience of owning an HVX-200 and the blacks getting progressively noisier?

I was one of the early adoptors of the HVX-200 here in the UK. Had it for a considerable time now but I've noticed the blacks seem to be degrading to such an extent that I have no confidence in using it for clients now.

Is there a life span to the sensors on these cameras? has anyone else had the same degridation in their content? Is it something Panasonic would likely fix?

Thoughts and comments?

I've attached a couple of stills from a music video I DOP'd showing you, what I think, unaceptable noise levels.
 

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Are you sure anything's progressively changed? Can you dig up similar-style footage from early on, and see any differences?
 
We've had ours about the same time as yours. I can remember you getting it.

Two things, have you done a complete reset of all settings? Also I reckon your eyes 'learn' to see stuff over time and what may have been acceptable then might not be now.

We have the 171 too, and it is much better in the noise department.

Also where is your MP set? IIRC it should be -3/-4 for the HVX.
 
reset your Black balance.

it will help. i think it looks fine... but if you say so... :)
 
TimurCivan said:
reset your Black balance.

it will help. i think it looks fine... but if you say so... :)
Click to expand...

I reset everything at the beginning of every shoot.

Do you honestly think the noise in the blue Polo Shirt is acceptable?

and Barry, I've dipped into some archive stuff to see if there was something alike and yes there is noise there but no where near what I'm getting these days.

I've attached some early samples of stills with dark areas within the image and they all seem (to me) perfectly acceptable for noise.

Time for a service me thinks. I've just got the Camcorder back as well after getting the infamous battery tab breakage plate replaced. Bugger.
 

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im finding the same problems... excessive noise is driving me crazy

not just in low light too, in almost all lighting scenarios im getting pretty bad noise now, its brutal
 
gordie said:
im finding the same problems... excessive noise is driving me crazy

not just in low light too, in almost all lighting scenarios im getting pretty bad noise now, its brutal
Click to expand...

Glad to know it's not just me then. Anyone else have this problem?
 
i see what youre talking about now...

Hmmm....

Whats your preferred gamma setting? Perhaps, see if it was accidentally changed.
 
I've had similar experience with my camera - couldn't help the feeling the noise level was increasing as time passed. Three days ago I went to the store and compared it to the brand new one. When I checked the footage from the new camera I was sure it was way less noisy. But then compared it to the same shots from mine and... guess what? They looked exactly the same. I couldn't tell the difference ;) Think it was just my initial excitation gradually settling down.
By the way - I wouldn't call the noise level on your stills 'normal'. This is MUCH more severe than what I get with my camera (but I got HMC which is known to be less noisy).
Attempting to reduce the noise I came to conlusion I prefer to shoot with detail level down and sharpen in post if I need. It reduces the noise significantly. Think it's less demanding for the codec, too. Also - no more CineD gamma... mostly use B-press now.
 
trez said:
By the way - I wouldn't call the noise level on your stills 'normal'. This is MUCH more severe than what I get with my camera (but I got HMC which is known to be less noisy).
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I don't think I ever did say it was normal. My initial thread questioned the fact I think the noise levels have become so bad that I had no confidence whatsoever in using the camera and I believe the second batch of still's I stuck onto the thread, hinted that the noise levels were acceptable (to me) when I first got the camera.

Didn't mention 'normal' in any of the discussion.

Regards

Rich
 
I have 2 200's and 170. I have become hyper sensitive to the noise of the 200's. I see the noise in the (very) dark blue shirt but IMHO opinion I think that's the nature of the beast. Much has been said about this. The blacks look nice and back, however. I'm not sure the comparison between shots is completely valid either. I have always seen a lot of dancing pixels with reddish brown low level subjects like you have in the background in the shot on the right. I think the 2nd set of shots is generally higher contrast.
In my completely subjective opinion this does not look unusual for an original HVX.
I tend now to use low gamma and iris up a little if I can.
Just my 2 cents.
BTW what settings are you using?
Gamma, matrix etc.
 
I've had my 200 for nearly 2 years now... and I'm feeling the same as you (thought of sending in for a refresh too). Maybe it's just me.... I find the camera performs SO much better in 100% artificially lit setups... Blacked out rooms, sufficient lighting it looks great.

Available, natural -or just even- light (like the kind of light in your band shot, and it's bad. I don't know if it's the lens, the sensor wearing out (getting dirty?). I mention the lens because I also notice that any flare, or light leaking toward the glass also makes it significantly noisier .

In looking at your screenshots, it almost confirms what's happening on my end. Try a portrait type / interview setup with your camera before sending it in, and see what you get.

I go into shoots knowing that I need to throw a whole lot more light than I would normally want to, in order to make sure I get a clean image, not a handicap at all... just being aware of what is needed to get a good look.

Do you really reset the camera before each shoot? I should try to get into that habit!

Also.. forgot to add that I lowered the detail settings, and the master ped after my reset, and it seems to have helped some, -or maybe it's just imagination....
 
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Hold in the white balance button on the front of the camera. The process will change from AWB to ABB active. Continue to hold until it says ABB ended. Your black balance is now set.

Jim
 
You do not have to point at anything specific. The iris will automatically close down during this function. I typically close the iris myself just out of habit from the old days with less sophisticated cameras.
Jim
 
Sensors and Degredation?

Sensors and Degredation?

steadicamsteel said:
Is there a life span to the sensors on these cameras?

has anyone else had the same degridation in their content?

Is it something Panasonic would likely fix?
Click to expand...

Hi - I just thought I had to respond to your post (even though it's quite dated). I have had a HVX200 for about five years now and I am convinced that the 'noise' has become progressively more noticeable. To the extent that I may have to look for a new camera I know it's been talked to death and I don't want to really start a general discussion on 'noise and the HVX200' BUT there were some interesting questions (see above) asked by steadicamsteel that were not answered and I'd love to know what they are!

So if anyone has any idea please let me know. Also steadicamsteel, did you solve the problem?
 
Noise in BLACK

Noise in BLACK

Very interesting thread, we just did a shoot a couple of weeks ago and were commenting on how noising the picture looked. I had wonder the same thing about the camera getting more noising the older they get. I will be following this tread.
tdtinker
 
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