NOBODY Edits P2 on Avid

K

kfrogg

Active member
Or do they? :cheesy: It's an intentionally stupid thread title to generate a response.

Obviously there are people editing P2 on Avid, but how are they getting it OUT of Avid? PC offers P2 out, but NOT for native formats... which means no P2 out from 720/24pn sequence favored by many filmmakers.

Animation and NO COMPRESSION is giving me fits with file size and gamma shifts.

So, I re-ask the question posted on another thread:

ATTN MEMBERS WHO EDIT P2/AVID/PC: HOW ARE YOU EXPORTING YOUR FINISHED PRODUCT?

Thanks in advance for your firsthand, real-world experience...
 
Of course we edit P2 in Avid. I just finished a show that was ALL P2...and I am outputting it to HDCAM tape via a Nitris DX box. For network delivery.

Again, you need to tell us HOW you want to master. Typically you don't master to native MXF...what's the point of that? What would you play that with? YOu need to master for various things...DVD, WEB, tape, choose something and we can give you an answer.
 
Ahhh - A real world example. Thanks Shane for responding. I want tapeless master file for archving.

EDIT:
"You need to master for various things...DVD, WEB, tape, choose something and we can give you an answer."
Best possible codec to cover all these potential needs. A Master Tape could handle all of these outputs, but at home I don't have luxury of a deck! So what codec best covers my tapeless options?

For my broadcast projects, I'm generally in SD, so I dump/downconvert to digibeta using FCP at work.

However, for my personal film projects, I am on PC at home. I want the best balance of image quality/reasonable file size I can find. Wish there was something like Apple Pro Res for PC.

Make sense?
 
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DNxHD is Avid's version of ProRes. Export from the Avid an Avid QT file. But the only thing that gets me about that is that when you reimport that QT, it again converts the file to MXF.

I don't archive this way. What I do is CONSOLIDATE the cut, with handles, to a new drive and project file. But, if I want a master file to work from, I do it as DNxHD. Or...output it to HDCAM tape...or other HD tape format, like you do with SD.
 
Your response solidifies my a. love for tape when at all possible and b. commitment to eventually move over to MAC/FCP..

The consolidate/new project method makes sense but I wish it wasn't so involved...A tapeless world was supposed to be simpler!
 
kfrogg said:
Your response solidifies my a. love for tape when at all possible and b. commitment to eventually move over to MAC/FCP..

The consolidate/new project method makes sense but I wish it wasn't so involved...A tapeless world was supposed to be simpler!
Click to expand...

WTH are you TALKING about? It couldn't be any simpler. Iingest your P2, edit your footage, export sequence as DNxHD matching the frame rate and frame size of your footage. DONE.

That's all there is to it.

If you want FCP/Mac go for it. The process is EXACTLY the same other than substitute the word ProRes for DNxHD.

If you want tape, be my guest. Enjoy the extra $10k+ you'll spend on the deck.
 
:laugh:
PerroneFord said:
WTH are you TALKING about? It couldn't be any simpler. Iingest your P2, edit your footage, export sequence as DNxHD matching the frame rate and frame size of your footage. DONE.

That's all there is to it.
Click to expand...

WTH am I talking about? WTH are YOU talking about? :laugh: Such passion! I was referring to his conform with handles option. I'm betting this is the highest quality option for archiving out of Avid.

A roadblock I've encountered with DNXHD...haven't been able to open it in a FCP system, even one with latest Avid codecs installed. Perhaps someone here can speak to this.

So back to my original dilemma...I want a file that is universal, reasonable quality, reasonable size...and no, I'm not expecting that impossible triumverate of fast, cheap, AND good! :Drogar-Mark-01(DBG)

Which is why I was hoping for people like Shane who are actually doing this... they've likely encountered these little glitches and have hopefully figured workarounds.

And meanwhile, PerroneFord, so I have a frame of reference where you're coming from, what format are you shooting and/or editing with?
 
Shane Ross said:
DNxHD is Avid's version of ProRes. Export from the Avid an Avid QT file. But the only thing that gets me about that is that when you reimport that QT, it again converts the file to MXF.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear - it is only rewrapping as MXF, there is no decode/encode transcode process if the codec in the QT file is one that is native to Media Composer such as DNxHD (unless you change the resolution for some reason).

Michael
 
kfrogg said:
WTH am I talking about? WTH are YOU talking about? :laugh: Such passion! I was referring to his conform with handles option. I'm betting this is the highest quality option for archiving out of Avid.
Click to expand...

I'm expressing passion, because I get frustrated with people who have zero clue asking those of us who do this for a living what they should do, we tell them, and we get ignored. Both Shane and I have told you how to solve your issue and you keep asking a bunch of nonsense and wasting our time.

Shane's method is of no higher quality than the method I just described. It simply creates a different type of archive file (one that can be edited at a later date). DNxHD was good enough to be used in Avatar. I am sure it's good enough for whatever project you may have.


kfrogg said:
A roadblock I've encountered with DNXHD...haven't been able to open it in a FCP system, even one with latest Avid codecs installed. Perhaps someone here can speak to this.
Click to expand...

I hand off DNxHD to FCP users every few months. Including the last film project I did color on. So the issue is down to you.

kfrogg said:
So back to my original dilemma...I want a file that is universal, reasonable quality, reasonable size...and no, I'm not expecting that impossible triumverate of fast, cheap, AND good! :Drogar-Mark-01(DBG)
Click to expand...

The triumvirate has been given to you. Twice.

kfrogg said:
Which is why I was hoping for people like Shane who are actually doing this... they've likely encountered these little glitches and have hopefully figured workarounds.
Click to expand...

Everyone in this THREAD is actually doing this.

kfrogg said:
And meanwhile, PerroneFord, so I have a frame of reference where you're coming from, what format are you shooting and/or editing with?
Click to expand...

Where am I coming from? I run a government based production unit, as well as do indie film. I have worked with Premiere, Sony Vegas (Version 6-9), FCP (a bit), Avid MC4 and MC5, and will add Lightworks next week. I have cut DV, HDV, DVCProHD, XDCamEX, Canon DSLR, HMC150, RED, DPX source, and other footage.

Where are YOU coming from?
 
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> A roadblock I've encountered with DNXHD...haven't been able to open it in a FCP system, even one with latest Avid codecs installed. Perhaps someone here can speak to this.

DOn't know why you can't, because I certainly can edit DNxHD files in FCP. I can't monitor them out via the capture card, but I can add them to my demo reel, or take out samples for marketting.

DNxHD is more universal than ProRes...as Avid provides the codecs for people to decode and ENCODE...unlike Apple that allows the decode of ProRes only...no encoding.
 
Shane - I've tried the DNXHD file on two FCP 7.0.3 systems and neither will play... one was at a major broadcast post house here in town and the other just now on my 17" MacBook Pro ( Intel Core i7 2.66 GHz/8 GB RAM/NVIDIA GeForce GT 300M). On the laptop, it crashes FCP after the message "Codec not found. You may be using a compression type without the corresponding hardware card."

For what it's worth, the files play outside of FCP with QT, albeit with one hellacious gamma shift.

Could I be screwing up the output somehow when I export from PC? Is it an RGB/701 issue? Usually when things don't work correctly, I assume user error on my end. :laugh:

Milksac - thanks for the link...and Michael - good to know that no recompression happens when reimporting to Avid.

Floating between PC-MAC worlds is a killin' me...
 
kfrogg,

I use DNxHD between Mac and PC precisely BECAUSE I can do it without gamma shift. Which is why I use it for color grading purposes. I'll have to let a Mac person speak to you about how you exporting from FCP since I just get the files from them and hand them back on HFS+ drives. But you are the very first person I've spoken to that cannot play DNxHD stuff in FCP. In the 3 years or so since I've been doing this, I've never once encountered this issue.
 
I'm with Perrone... you are the first person I have heard that says they can't get it to work on multiple machines. Make sure you have the most current Avid codecs installed. PE if you can get them (they are part of the Avid install disk), LE will be fine though (the ones you get from the web).
 
Shane Ross said:
I'm with Perrone... you are the first person I have heard that says they can't get it to work on multiple machines. Make sure you have the most current Avid codecs installed. PE if you can get them (they are part of the Avid install disk), LE will be fine though (the ones you get from the web).
Click to expand...

HA! always glad to break new ground! I have the LE 2.2.1 codecs. Like I say, I tried it... and also a trusted sr. editor at my local post facility. I'm fortunate to have a lot of FCP experts within earshot at work to learn from, but they don't typically have need to go back and forth tapeless. So this is new to them as well.

Guess all I can do is try to export again. Perhaps I checked something wrong. Thanks for your time.
 
I never got the concept of having a NLE, a non destructing timeline with all the bells and whistles and when you are done you want to bake that into a codec and loose all the flexibility?

O.K. here is what I do in CS5 (don´t know if AVID has the ability to do something similar, I left AVID a long time ago).

When I finish a project, I go to project manager and tell it to make a new folder with the project file and all the clips (and sounds) I used +100 Frames head and tail.

No transcoding going on at all. You keep your original untouched files (only the parts you used in your edit) in the original format and have all options in the world for future playout, colorgrading andwhatnot.

my ct 2 - Frank
 
Hey guys -- this is a slight deviation but still within the same spirit of this ongoing conversation:
I'm a long-time FCP editor who is giving AVID a whirl and here's my consolidation question/issue:

Let's pretend I have finished a project and I want to archive it. I want to create a new project that only contains my final sequence and associated media. I have tried to do this in AVID with surprising less success than I expected. Here are my issues:

1) AVID MC 5 doesn't seem to have a "create new project" option with a consolidate or transcode. (right?)
2) AVID creates a new sequence and new master files and places then all in the SAME BIN as my old files. It just adds a .new01 (or close to that) appended to the end. This forces me to manually move my new sequence and media clips into a separate bin.
3) Since AVID places everything into /MXF/1/ folder, I've still got no real separation of the media files from my other projects.

Can someone with a little more AVID experience give me some advice on their preferred method of archiving with consolidation please. I heard a rumour that a third party plugin is used for what I'm asking… "media mover" or something?
 
Export your sequence as an AAF File. You can consolidate your media or transcode it on the export. I send the media to a folder instead of trying to embed it into the file. You can import this AAF back into Avid at a later date or with Auto duck you can bring it into FCP or AE. It gives you some options down the road.
 
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