No More Bs - Here Is What You Need!!!

Well I will say that I do love my K-Tek... but 9' can be limiting... I'd be tempted to get a longer K-Tek and wait on internal cabling. When we were doing the zombie thing and I look over to see the boom is still 8' away from anybody's voice... I kept thinking about the longer pole.
 
Commend the change from PSC mixer to Sound Device. The PSC is really a overpriced cheapo mixer (IMHO). I would (and have) pushed a used Shure fp33 or 32a over the PSC or if you potentially need the third channel a Mixpre.

Also agree with Dave about the Gitzo poles, they are really a bad investment (again IMHO).

If this is a package for filmmaking then you are going to need/want a minimum of 2 wireless (bringing back the need for a 3 channel mixer).

A phase inverter cable will likely be needed if you start to mix different lavs.

At ~$3000 I think that is a healthy package (now back to the orginal point about not looking to spend as much on sound as you did on the DVX :grin: ).

Best
 
"Commend the change from PSC mixer to Sound Device. The PSC is really a overpriced cheapo mixer (IMHO). I would (and have) pushed a used Shure fp33 or 32a over the PSC or if you potentially need the third channel a Mixpre"

Can you clarify, as im confused, so which one is the one i should put on the list in your opinion. I think it should have at least two channels and the possibility to monitor and adjust levels. Currently we got this one on there
MIXPRE (FIELD MIXER) $665

and as far as yore :grin: is concerned, i think you are right, but we started out with the assumption that the 416 was as low as we could go, and as you say yore self, I think what we got here represents a healthy starter kit even if it is a step down for some items + it all being in one list now, with prices, and explanations. I think we have really made progress in that respect.

so thank you kindly for yore input

best Jon
 
The PSC Alphamix is very good sounding, and has a lot of nice features, like basically haveing a battery distribution system built in. Don't underestimate it.

-Dave
 
John, to answer your question about adapters, I'm referring to things like Y-adapters, XLR-1/4", things of that nature. Even having a few video adapters is very handy. You don't need a ton to begin with, just start off with ones that are needed for your kit, if any, but eventually when you really get into it, you'll find situations where they will come in really handy.

Mixers and Mic pres are such a subjective thing. But, companies such as Sound Devices have a good reputation for a reason. Again, think it comes down to situational decision making, but if you are going to buy a mixer or mic pre PLEASE go to a place where you can listen to it. You can't always go by specs. You need to HEAR how low the noise floor is, not just go by what the specs say. Even in the lower priced products, it's worth trying before you buy.

I work with a fantastic audio dealer who will actually let me take things home and try them. I was gung ho about a pair of speakers until I took them home and listened to them in my home studio. Tried out another pair that I was not sure about and they sounded much better. Bought them. If you can establish a good relationship with a dealer you might be able to get this type of arrangement.

Steve
 
I was saying that switching out the PSC for the Mixpre was a good call. I really believe the PSC to be a poor quality mixer for the money (no offense to Dave, who I respect but will disagree about this one point :) ). Sound Device for the money (IMHO) makes the best field mixers out there (not exactly going out on a limb here).

The issue, I find, tends to be that altough the Mixpre is a great mixer with only 2 channels you really will find yourself in most circumstances needing at least 3 channels (2 wireless and a boom). I won't cram that 3rd channel down your throat but I know I couldn't do an adequate job if I only had 2 channels to work from.

So if you looking to get a 3 channel mixer in the $500 range I personally would recommend picking up a used Shure FP33/32a instead. One man's opinion. :thumbsup:

Cheers
 
This is exactly the kind of post I've been clammoring for. That being said, what about taking the modular path? Like how about the AKG Blue Line? I've heard good things from friends of a friend but does anyone have any experience with it (specifically the CK98)? If so how does it stack up against other shotguns? If its any good then I think putting together a AKG package would be pretty good and cost effective. With this said, I think a pretty good package would include:

-AKG SE300B Blue Line Module ($240) audiogear.com
-AKG CK93 Hypercardioid Capsule ($160) audiogear.com
-AKG CK98 Shotgun Capsule ($360) audiogear.com
-Sony MDR-7506 Headphones ($100) B&H
-Sennheiser EW 100ENG-G2 Wireless w/buttplug ($600) B&H
-Tram TR50SQ Omni Lav for Wireless ($255) B&H
-AKG D230 Dynamic Handheld Mic ($180) B&H
-Rycote 24cm Small Hole Softie and Windscreen for CK98 ($240) B&H
-Rycote 20mm BBG Windshield for CK93 ($140) B&H
-Rycote Windjammer for BBG ($70) B&H
-K-Tek Avalon KE-100CC Boom Pole ($400) B&H
-Sound Devices Mixpre 2-Channel Mixer ($666) B&H
-Kata Koala-4 Mixer Case ($150)
-Canare StarQuad XLR cables 25', 10', 3', etc. ($100) B&H
-Comprehensive Phone to XLR cable 3' ($11) B&H
-Pelican 1490 Hard Case ($90) B&H
-M-Audio MicroTrack Digital Recorder ($350) guygraphics.com
-Sandisk 1GB Compact Flash Card ($80) guygraphics.com

Phew, I think this is a pretty decent set-up, its actually one I was planning to get thanks to the advice here. Please feel free to add/subtract.
 
Not to be redundant but whenever one wireless comes out of my bag, the 2nd is right behind it. If you are using wireless you will probably need at least 2. You could save a hundred buck by skipping the buttplug option. That is more of an ENG option then a film one. For that matter the handheld mic is an ENG standard, not so much for film (unless of course the character on screen is using one).

The 1 gig flashcard will get you about 30 minutes of record time for 2 channels. Without knowing your application, that is pretty sparse.

Best
 
For the record I officially cancelled my order for the MicroTrack today. It's been both impressive and yet buggy. There are certain times when I accept something less then professional for it's price : performance ratio, but not when that something proves itself unreliable. I'm sure M-Audio will get the bugs sorted in either the next firmware update or perhaps in a revised model later this year... but I'm not taking a gamble when there are proven choices available right now. If you want a low-cost digital recorder and you're gonna' feed it with a pre-amp or mixer anyway then I'm now recommending:

The Edirol R-1. While it does NOT have phantom mic inputs the MicroTrack is only pumping about 30v out it's phantom inputs anyway... and people are getting really sporatic battery life in the MT (MicroTrack)... some get as little as 3 hours without any phantom, headphones, or display on. The worst part is you can't even swap out batteries 'cause it's like an Ipod.

The other advantage of the MT is that it's got a 100db SN... which is significantly better then the 92 or so of the Edirol... but people are getting excellent results with the R-1 anyway.

Finally the advantage of the MicroTrack is 24/96 recording... but so far everybody that tries it locks up their unit.

So again... I have to say that if you get a MicroTrack you're doing it at your own risk. I went from being nutty for one to kind of dissappointed in all the bugs people are experiencing. So there's my .02 If you still want one get one and let us know how you like it. After reading a ton of enthusiastic posts for the R-1 and a ton of frustrated posts for the MT... I decided that I'm not going to be a guinea pig as long as their are proven alternatives.
 
Dave_Fisk

Just to take you up on an earlier statement, that there are several options for a indy sound kit. I would love to see what you can come up with, how about the Dave_Fisk version of MattinSTL list. The list needs to include all that is on MattinSTL list, be approximately the same price and quality.
Also I see we got a new contender here, Dyplodicus1975. Lets give him a warm round of applause and lets get ready to rumble.

The official "THE MAN" status is at stake here.

so lets see what you got

best

Jon
 
MattinSTL

This is a fight till the end :evil: i think if we are going to start this thread, its worth taking it to the limit. This will be a monument for generations to come, as i think this may quite possible be the most relevant sound thread to the majority of the users here, even if they don't know it yet. Do i wish there was something like this before i spent more than 1000$ on rubbish for sound alone. And although your list seems like the likely winner, having it scrutinized and compared gives it true and unrivaled credibility, and will end all further discussions about this.
Think about it, in the long run you are not going to have to explain every greenhorn the same thing you told me, and the hundreds before me. I am actually saving you guys time and it is curios that this has not bin done before. I would in fact recommend this kind of a thread for every section of this forum.
Besides if Dave does not have the time that is fine, i surly will be the last one to hold that against anyone.
By the way, where do we go from here if we want to put a digital recorder on that list?

best

Jon
 
First of all, these lists have been complied before. Nothing new here. People will still come in and ask for a cheaper alternative...guarentee that. :)

Jon, I respect what you are trying to do but don't talk down to people like we are children. People here give advice of their own free will, not to be "the man". It's cute that you are trying to have some fun with it but it's a little demeaning to try and set up some false competition like a grade school teacher.

Anyways, still respect what you are trying to do here. Although the same redundent questions will continue to get asked over and over again, this thread might at least cut down a bit on the numbers. Honestly there are a number of threads on here that would benefit from some stickies.

MattInSTL, I always have my doubts about something that offers up features that can't be bought anywhere else for less then 3 times the price. Even assuming that the preamps are junk, the price was far too low to offer quality and durability. If it seems too good to be true...

Still, I would like to see one of these Microtracks sometime, hear what they have to offer.

Best
 
Cmon man, don't be so serious, just trying to have some fun, and if there are other list's i didn't find them, maybe you help and paste the links or better more the list's. I think it might be nice to have a complete thread with all relevant info, I'm all for it. If you don't feel like posting, just ignore this thread and move on, no one will think less of you.
By the way, we are NOT trying to find the cheapest equipment, but the cheapest ACCEPTABLE quality. HUGE difference!!! And actually a rather interesting and challenging task.
 
Dude, I already gave you a link:

http://www.coffeysound.com/specials/fieldspecials.html

It's a thing we put on our website for stuff like this. I really don't have the time to come up with a huge list while I'm at work, and I don't have the time while I'm at home cause I'm freelancing.

This isn't a fight, and I'm not trying to get in a pissing contest with anyone else. I respect what Matt has to say, and I think is list is great.


-Dave
 
No problem in trying to compile a list, but I wonder if you start to single out brands and model numbers, the list might get outdated after a while. What might be better is to make a list of key components,d description of what it is and in parentheses put in some examples of brand names, models). For example:

Boom Pole, aka. Fishpole - used to extend reach of microphones by attaching a microphone and mount on the end of it. (K-Tek, Gitzo, etc. )

Wind Protection System - a unit that covers the microphone and prevents wind noise from being picked up in the audio signal (Rycote Softie, Rycote Winshield Kit, DPA Windpac)

This kind of list would be of course for people just getting into doing some decent level of sound beyond using the mic on the camera. For people who have been doing it for a long time, or with a good amount of experience this list would be too basic. But there are sites out there for gearheads.

I highly recommend these sites.

www.locationsound.com
www.recording.org
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro
www.filmsound.org

and many many more

Not trying to shoot your idea down at all. I just wonder if putting the focus too much on particular models of equipment is sort of like trying to hit a moving target.

Steve
 
stevesherrick
I see what you saying, but this thread was specifically started with a shopping list in mind rather than a "here is what you need" as both on this forum and on the sites you pointed out this info is readily available. And i think the fact that we are getting specific (brands, models) makes it possible to discuss any kind of list.
Hay, and if it is that easy, than show me the money!

Dave you are right this is not a fight. But there is also one thing saying here are the most "sold items" and another saying "this is the cheapest yet acceptable quality kit for indy sound based on my experience". And as you see your list would varied greatly from MattinSTL, but by putting yours out there we can debate it and it would help us understand it better. I mean does this not make sense. Even if MattinSTL list is probably very sufficient wouldn't it be foolish to drop 3K without getting a second option or at least checking if there is one.

best

Jon
 
Sorry Jon, wasn't trying to be mean, I know you were having fun with it but I was just informing you the gamemenship thing was a little condescending. I doubt you meant anything by it but the point is people here are always willing to help and don't need some "be the best" to help out. I will gladly participate but I felt that wasn't needed. That's all.

The absolute best resource for beginners with sound is Jay Rose's book (http://www.dplay.com/book/pgs2e/index.html). I would not recommend spending a penny on audio until you read this book. All the basics are in there.

A complete list of equipment varies from situation to situation. Sound guys are constantly adding and updating their equipment. For most jobs we leave a bunch of equipment at home. On occassion even we rent.

While one person might want to invest less in a shotgun but wants the best wireless, someone else wants a high quality recorder with cheap wireless. And of course most don't want to hear that you need more then one boom mic...but it is quite simply the truth.

I think the lists above pretty much hit the minimum for what someone should get. Anything less is ultimately a waste of money. MattInSTL's list with what order to buy is pretty accurate also. I don't think much debate is left (of course I have been known to be wrong....often in fact :) )

Best
 
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