No AF200 under glass

What's odd is that they seemingly have given up on the very market they helped create - indie film makers who chose video over film.

I still remember worrying about whether or not to sell off all my film gear to jump into video. I - and many others - did so, starting a sort of revolution that eventually worked it's way all the way up to big Hollywood films.

Obviously Panasonic a big part of that revolution. Strange that the two companies most associated with it, Panny and Canon (via the Mark II/7D/T2i), have so completely given up on that market. While I think there will always be a place for a camera like the GH4 and Canon Mark III, I want nothing to do with those cameras for narrative film work.

Could it have been that hard to change the sensor in the AF100? Maybe. But I think the suits in power at both Panasonic & Canon have made a simple cost analysis and figured the hell with it. Small prosumer or ultra high-end with nothing at the various price brackets in-between.

Which is a bit sad really.
 
jdv said:
What's odd is that they seemingly have given up on the very market they helped create - indie film makers who chose video over film.
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In this NewsShooter.com interview, one of the Panasonic reps mentions that they could not build the S35 Varicam camera until their sensor-tech was ready, which is something I've been saying for the past 2 years. ( that building an AF200 was limited by Panasonic sensor technology ) I suspect that the Varicam rollout was pushed back to this Fall because Panasonic is still sorting out manufacturing of this new 14+ stop dynamic-range sensor.

Once they are ready to release this new sensor-tech to the great unwashed at a fraction of the Varicam pricing, then we might see a new $8K AF200 camera. I hope that Panasonic doesn't wait too long on this...
 
That JVC 4K camera doesn't make sense to me--a Super 35mm sensor and a micro 4/3" mount?
There is a big difference between the Super 35mm imaging circle of 28mm and MFT 18mm imaging circle
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Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds are 22 mm.

S35 + Micro Four Thirds mount actually makes a lot of sense, especially if the sensor is 4K (I can't believe I'm saying this). You could use almost any manual lens:

  1. With a lens adapter for Canon EF or Nikon F (or Leica M or Arri PL for shooters who drive Porsches) you cover the entire S35 sensor and get 4K.
  2. Without an adapter, you put on a Micro Four Thirds lens. It turns out the crop would be about 3.1K.
  3. With a lens adapter for C mount, you can use 16mm and Super 16 lenses, and the crop would bring it down to 2K. (Ikonoskop and Digital Bolex aficionados all say, "Works for me!")

It's as if MFT is the interchangeable lens mount we've all been waiting for.

That JVC prototype has the specs I was hoping for in an AF100 replacement
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the JVC's sensor, the AltaSens AL41410C, is rolling shutter and yet has just 10½ stops (64 dB) of dynamic range.
 
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hscully said:
It's weird, right? I expected an "upgrade" to the AF100. I agree, Shawn, I think we do now need stronger options, especially with regard to color space and latitude. I would have liked a 4:2:2 10 bit camera with some sort of S-log and maybe, just maybe, a "future" type of RAW option. I guess 4K is in the mix there too. So any newer model would have had to keep up with a modern feature set. Maybe not everything but better. But alas, Panasonic doesn't have a feature set because it does not have a camera in which to put it!
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Now I'm really sorry that I didn't attend NAB this year. I would have said these things to them in person! Not that they would have listened though... I mean, if Barry can't get a straight answer out of Panasonic... :-)

All I can say is, show me a pulse Panasonic. You would be VERY wise to ship a kickass AFxxx before BMD (or anyone really) gets their act together. :-)

Shawn
 
My take on it --

For whatever reason, they simply just aren't going to build the AF200 that we've been asking for for going on four years now. They just won't. Prior to the AF100's launch, I was invited to speak to the entire factory in Japan -- there were hundreds of people, top brass, everyone -- and I told them very clearly, succinctly, passionately, and fervently, that we needed an AF100 with the HPX170 P2 back end on it. Nothing ever came of it. We asked for a GH2 in an AF100 body, they didn't do it. We asked for a GH3 in an AF100 body, and instead we got the AF100A. And I once again asked them when they're going to just chop the lens off the PX270 and cram a gh4 down there, and they seemed surprised that someone would want such a thing.

I don't know what to tell you.

All I can say is this -- the GH4 table was far and away the most crowded section of the entire Panasonic booth. There were times that I looked around and there was nobody along one whole entire wall of the booth, yet they were still crammed in side-by-side, 4 deep, at the GH4.

And it says something that they even had the GH4 there at all, seeing as it's offered by basically a different company (Panasonic Consumer, vs. everything else there being offered by the Broadcast division).

So maybe what we need to read into here is that yes, they're giving the large-sensor low-cost camera market over to the GH4. Heck, the GH4 has some of the same features that the AF100 had, especially when including the YAGH -- SDI output, proper XLR inputs, CineLike-D gamma, zebras, all the right stuff except ND filters.

The BlackMagic booth was packed to the gills -- obviously they're making products that people are interested in. Even if I still can't find a way to work up actually wanting anything they make yet; I just don't get their infatuation with compromising on fundamental, painfully obvious things, but they do it over and over. But clearly people are interested.

The Red booth was packed in like sardines. Obviously Red is making products that people are interested in.

The Panasonic booth was packed at the GH4 stand. Obviously people want that. Someone's listening. But I am not optimistic that we'll ever get the ideal little 4K Panasonic that seems so obvious -- a PX270 back end, with a GH4 sensor and m43 mount on the front. Hands down that would be the best bang for the buck and most usable all-in-one. But I doubt we'll get it.
 
Barry_Green said:
My take on it --

For whatever reason, they simply just aren't going to build the AF200 that we've been asking for for going on four years now. They just won't. Prior to the AF100's launch, I was invited to speak to the entire factory in Japan -- there were hundreds of people, top brass, everyone -- and I told them very clearly, succinctly, passionately, and fervently, that we needed an AF100 with the HPX170 P2 back end on it. Nothing ever came of it. We asked for a GH2 in an AF100 body, they didn't do it. We asked for a GH3 in an AF100 body, and instead we got the AF100A. And I once again asked them when they're going to just chop the lens off the PX270 and cram a gh4 down there, and they seemed surprised that someone would want such a thing.

I don't know what to tell you.

All I can say is this -- the GH4 table was far and away the most crowded section of the entire Panasonic booth. There were times that I looked around and there was nobody along one whole entire wall of the booth, yet they were still crammed in side-by-side, 4 deep, at the GH4.

And it says something that they even had the GH4 there at all, seeing as it's offered by basically a different company (Panasonic Consumer, vs. everything else there being offered by the Broadcast division).

So maybe what we need to read into here is that yes, they're giving the large-sensor low-cost camera market over to the GH4. Heck, the GH4 has some of the same features that the AF100 had, especially when including the YAGH -- SDI output, proper XLR inputs, CineLike-D gamma, zebras, all the right stuff except ND filters.

The BlackMagic booth was packed to the gills -- obviously they're making products that people are interested in. Even if I still can't find a way to work up actually wanting anything they make yet; I just don't get their infatuation with compromising on fundamental, painfully obvious things, but they do it over and over. But clearly people are interested.

The Red booth was packed in like sardines. Obviously Red is making products that people are interested in.

The Panasonic booth was packed at the GH4 stand. Obviously people want that. Someone's listening. But I am not optimistic that we'll ever get the ideal little 4K Panasonic that seems so obvious -- a PX270 back end, with a GH4 sensor and m43 mount on the front. Hands down that would be the best bang for the buck and most usable all-in-one. But I doubt we'll get it.
Click to expand...


Wow... thanks for the insight, Barry. A bit depressing, but it helps me to reset my expectations. It sounds like the professional division has an entrenched position, and nothing will move them from that point of view. Too bad, I really like the company. Anyway, looking forward to your next video "SOUND for Film and Television Volume II". I really enjoyed the first volume, so I'm anxious to see what you all have in store for the next one.

Thanks,

Shawn
 
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TubEfingers said:
Just seen mention of the new JVC GY-LSX2 in another thread, looks like a potential AF101/M43 successor
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At this point, it's clear the JVC GY-LSX2 is positioned to become the 4K ergonomic successor to the AF100, and at the estimated $6000 retail price, it's as practical as anything we could've expected from Panasonic. The JVC's Super35 sensor combined with the active MFT lens mount is an ideal match, and it will support Panasonic servo zoom lenses with in-camera controls. But we'll likely have to wait till 2015 for its release, long enough for competing solutions to emerge in the meantime.

On the imminent front, Panasonic's GH4 + YAGH combo at $3500 retail is a very affordable 4K functional upgrade to the AF100, lacking only the waveform monitor and built-in ND filters. If the GH4's handheld flexibility is appealing, then the ability to swap the same camera between a portable shoulder mount and a fixed YAGH tripod mount will be a major logistical advantage. For a two-camera tripod + shoulder mount shoot, you could bring three GH4's to cover all backup contingencies, at a total cost less than two JVC 4K videocams.
 
I suspect the main reason there was no AF-200 at NAB this year is Jan Crittenden. She was responsible for shepherding the AF-100 from concept to completion. She has now moved on to other assignments. Like it or not a product like the AF-100 needs a corporate champion to get to market. No champion, no product. I'm not holding my breath for the AF-200.
 
Barry_Green said:
My take on it --

For whatever reason, they simply just aren't going to build the AF200 that we've been asking for for going on four years now. They just won't. Prior to the AF100's launch, I was invited to speak to the entire factory in Japan -- there were hundreds of people, top brass, everyone -- and I told them very clearly, succinctly, passionately, and fervently, that we needed an AF100 with the HPX170 P2 back end on it. Nothing ever came of it. We asked for a GH2 in an AF100 body, they didn't do it. We asked for a GH3 in an AF100 body, and instead we got the AF100A. And I once again asked them when they're going to just chop the lens off the PX270 and cram a gh4 down there, and they seemed surprised that someone would want such a thing.

I don't know what to tell you.

All I can say is this -- the GH4 table was far and away the most crowded section of the entire Panasonic booth. There were times that I looked around and there was nobody along one whole entire wall of the booth, yet they were still crammed in side-by-side, 4 deep, at the GH4.

And it says something that they even had the GH4 there at all, seeing as it's offered by basically a different company (Panasonic Consumer, vs. everything else there being offered by the Broadcast division).

So maybe what we need to read into here is that yes, they're giving the large-sensor low-cost camera market over to the GH4. Heck, the GH4 has some of the same features that the AF100 had, especially when including the YAGH -- SDI output, proper XLR inputs, CineLike-D gamma, zebras, all the right stuff except ND filters.

The BlackMagic booth was packed to the gills -- obviously they're making products that people are interested in. Even if I still can't find a way to work up actually wanting anything they make yet; I just don't get their infatuation with compromising on fundamental, painfully obvious things, but they do it over and over. But clearly people are interested.

The Red booth was packed in like sardines. Obviously Red is making products that people are interested in.

The Panasonic booth was packed at the GH4 stand. Obviously people want that. Someone's listening. But I am not optimistic that we'll ever get the ideal little 4K Panasonic that seems so obvious -- a PX270 back end, with a GH4 sensor and m43 mount on the front. Hands down that would be the best bang for the buck and most usable all-in-one. But I doubt we'll get it.
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Man, sorry to go off topic but injust want to say that it's sad you don't post as often as you once did, for obvious reasons. Reading this post felt like 2005 when I first found this community.

Always insightful and balanced, and descriptive haha. Thanks for contributing when you can Mr. Green.
 
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That, along with the consolidation of the camera divisions is a big part of why Panasonic is doing what it is doing. They have cut significantly and now it is time to regroup. It's a difficult time for Panasonic. They have to focus their money and their staff on those things that have the possibility of a high degree of success. Smaller markets have to be ignored for now.
 
Paul F said:
That, along with the consolidation of the camera divisions is a big part of why Panasonic is doing what it is doing. They have cut significantly and now it is time to regroup. It's a difficult time for Panasonic. They have to focus their money and their staff on those things that have the possibility of a high degree of success. Smaller markets have to be ignored for now.
Click to expand...
It'd be interesting to see the breakdown between the different parts of the markets. What I'd heard was that the consumer and stills division was doing reasonably well, the pro and video side much less so, was seen to have made a number of mistakes in the past and got reorganised.

I had high hopes for the s35 Varicam to restore Panasonics fortunes in the whole pro-video sector, but after hearing the announced pricing at NAB it's now hard to take it seriously, and I know I'm not alone thinking that.

It feels like it's the pro side that is now falling off a cliff, in spite of the reorganisation, and I suspect that may be dragging the overall profit down, whilst the GH4 (as with the rest of the consumer side) seems far more successful. If what the link to 43rumours says is true (" Panasonic said they will drop business not having at least a 5% profit by end 2015") I wonder if the price for saving the GHx etc range may be a withdrawal by Panasonic from the pro-video sector?

It's not just Panasonic that have been having a hard time, it's also been the case for Sony, and they've had to refocus as well. Whilst their camera divisions seem pretty strong at the moment, I believe they've had to pull out of the computer market, for example? ( http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/386932/sony-exits-pc-market-with-vaio-sale )
 
harddrive said:
It'd be interesting to see the breakdown between the different parts of the markets.
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Unfortunately, they only break down their financials into four broad categories, each containing many divisions. So we can't get that visibility. But of the four broad groups, the audio visual is doing the worst. Not that the others are doing well.

Operating profit
Appliances 2.9%
Eco Solutions 5.1%
Audio/Visual 1.3%
Automotive 3.1%
 
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