No AF200 under glass

I really think Panasonic pro product development is driven by engineers in Japan vs. the regional sales departments that actually talk to end users. This is how companies like JVC, Hitachi, Ikegami build products, and explains their market irrelevance. The Panasonic stills division seems to have a better handle on customer needs.
 
I have to say I’m a little bummed that it looks like the AF-100 will never mature. I didn’t see it at the show this year, or did I just miss it? The GH4 has so mach going for it and I’m getting one. I understand the camera is capable of a whole lot more than it’s specs and why Panasonic doesn’t have the sensor and the processor in an AFXXX model is frustrating. I think they looked at it as hey lets make the YAGH for the AF folks and kill two birds with one stone. Maybe that is the answer, but i see a whole lot of rigging to get it to work and just hate working that way. Just a bummer.
On the other hand I’m thrilled with the GH4 and can’t wait to get it.
 
Erik, yeah, a very low cost, full featured DSLR or an almost $60K Varicam. Bit of a spread there! Panasonic gave the large sensor market away to Sony and Canon. It pains me to see newbies like Black a Magic and AJA building large sensor cameras at the price points that Panasonic should have owned. It's a travesty.

Why would anyone buy the 4K Varicam for 2X the cost of an F55, no global shutter, no RAW at almost $60K? Then, I look at the PX70 and see that it's not currently supporting many frame rates and resolutions among the codec options.

If it weren't for the stills division, I'd be wondering if Panasonic had any mojo left.
 
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I was just hoping against hope that there will be a new AF-XXX or something that priced below 10k.
Can't afford the Varicam, guess I've to order the Gh4.
 
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That JVC prototype has the specs I was hoping for in an AF100 replacement. We'll see when it comes out but that's the ballpark for me. I haven't considered a JVC camera but I would.
 
Maybe there aren't enough of us. That's what I've been thinking lately. Maybe it just doesn't make good business sense to make a big sensor camera like the one we seek. I'm just beginning to wonder if the manufacturers sold enough C100s, FS100s, and AF100s to make it a viable segment at those price points. It's pretty stark with Panasonic. They've got nothing in there now. Sony pushes down into the VG type cameras, Panasonic down towards the GH4. Canon has a full line up but they charge a little higher for it. They also benefit from a very loyal base built on the 5D.
 
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That JVC 4K camera doesn't make sense to me--a Super 35mm sensor and a micro 4/3" mount?

if the $10k and under large sensor market doesn't make sense for manufacturers, why does Black Magic have multiple models, and AJA now a player? Canon is selling a lot of C100's, Sony has done fine with the FS700. This is the sweet spot for pro video cameras, judging by the dozens of small sensor palmcorders on the market(several of which are built by Panasonic).
 
It's been pointed out before that Black Magic Cameras are flying off the shelves at B&H - always a top seller. So you'd think the market is there but still no AF200 years later
 
hscully said:
Maybe there aren't enough of us. That's what I've been thinking lately. Maybe it just doesn't make good business sense to make a big sensor camera like the one we seek. I'm just beginning to wonder if the manufacturers sold enough C100s, FS100s, and AF100s to make it a viable segment at those price points.
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I get what you're saying, but a lot of those FS100 and AF100 owners would like something much better. Both cameras are starting to get a little long in the tooth, considering they were first generation large sensor cameras in this market. A GH4 frontend on a 4k variation of a PX-270 backend would beat every other camera in sub-$10k market. I don't even care about 4k, but having a GH4 sensor coupled with various flavors of AVC-Ultra would be sweet in and of itself. For those that do care about 4k, this I think would be the most appealing setup compared to the alternatives in that price range.

There is a market for it, I think. Realistically, it's going to be around $6k, but I would happily pay that for this camera.
 
Dino said:
That JVC 4K camera doesn't make sense to me--a Super 35mm sensor and a micro 4/3" mount?
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There's no reason why m4/3 lenses can't cover a S35 sensor (some already do), and when you factor in all the adapters for legacy glass to fit the m4/3 mount, then maybe the m4/3 mount isn't that bad an idea.
 
From the video on the JVC I think there is a windowing mode for enabling m4/3 lenses that will not cover S35. At least that's my understanding. He also asserts that some Olympus lenses will cover.
 
hscully said:
It's been pointed out before that Black Magic Cameras are flying off the shelves at B&H - always a top seller. So you'd think the market is there but still no AF200 years later
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First, I agree with everyone who wants to see something like the PX-270 with GH4 sensor and m4/3 mount. Second, it just seems bizarre that the established manufacturers can't figure this out. I love the AF100, the C100 and the FS100... I think they're just fantastic, "low budget" cameras. But I think the popularity of the Blackmagic cameras really exposes a pent up desire that moving image makers have for better image quality at lower price points. BMD users (including me) put up with A LOT of crap in order to get three things (IMO); deep dolor depth, high dynamic range and lightly compressed (or raw) formats. As a flexible, usable tool for getting work done, the AF100 is a workhorse, I'm not parting with mine anytime soon. When I want to make sure that I'm capturing as flexible of an image as I can get without renting an expensive camera, I turn to the BMCC. I just don't understand why I can't have both in a single, somewhat inexpensive package. It seems like Panasonic could be eating everyone's lunch in the $2,500 - $7,000 price range... but it feels like they've just given up on that segment of the market. :-/

Shawn
 
It's weird, right? I expected an "upgrade" to the AF100. I agree, Shawn, I think we do now need stronger options, especially with regard to color space and latitude. I would have liked a 4:2:2 10 bit camera with some sort of S-log and maybe, just maybe, a "future" type of RAW option. I guess 4K is in the mix there too. So any newer model would have had to keep up with a modern feature set. Maybe not everything but better. But alas, Panasonic doesn't have a feature set because it does not have a camera in which to put it!
 
hscully said:
From the video on the JVC I think there is a windowing mode for enabling m4/3 lenses that will not cover S35. At least that's my understanding. He also asserts that some Olympus lenses will cover.
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There is a big difference between the Super 35mm imaging circle of 28mm and MFT 18mm imaging circle. If a windowing mode is needed on a Super 35 camera, it defeats the purpose of having that sensor. Not sure how SN Olympus MFT lens gets by the physical limitation of the MFT mount?
 
Dino said:
That JVC 4K camera doesn't make sense to me--a Super 35mm sensor and a micro 4/3" mount?
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This actually isn't the first such product JVC created... two years ago they teased the HMQ-30, a 4K interchangeable lens camcorder that inexplicably used a Nikon mount with a 1.25" sensor, an altogether stupid combination. M43 with a S35 sensor makes sense... who says you have to use m43 lenses?

It's much like the reasoning for Sony making a full-frame mirrorless E-mount, when previously there were no full-frame E-mount lenses. Granted, they made the lenses to go with it, but they have heavily promoted the adaptability aspect. M43 is just as adaptable as E-mount, is a relatively "open" standard (no licensing fees to Canon or Sony necessary), and makes sense, especially if they've incorporated a windowing mode.

As to MFT lenses covering greater-than-MFT image circles, well, there are plenty of real-world examples in the C-mount and APS-C world. Lots of C-mount lenses designed for S16 and 1" sensors cover MFT. Lots of APC-C and DX lenses (zooms in particular) will cover full-frame in of their range. Some experimenters have free-lensed their 4/3-mount Oly 14-35 and 35-100's to Speedboosters and have reported no vignetting... so I'm certain it's possible, although will require some case-by-case trials of lenses.
 
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