C100: Ninja Star and the C100: Forever together?

jameshealey said:
I can't comment on the performance of the Star with the cards you are using but I can confirm that with the Atomos cards, it records prores HQ without a problem so far. Trigger works well and it detects 24fps on it's own before the camera even records anything.
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How much hand-waving do you have to do?

Bless the Ninja 2, but I've seen it garble cadences plenty before and you look like a doofus shooting a low light (noisy) scene and waving your hand and camera around and it can slow things down a LOT. The accurate/fast 24p detection is soooo important.

I have found the trigger to be pretty reliable on the Ninja 2. Hopefully they improved upon the deinterlacing.
 
I don't do any hand waving....

As soon as the camera is turned on, the star locks into 24p mode (if camera is in 24p of course) and it doesn't need any movement.
 
Quick review (with Super Talent media):

It's not that much smaller than the Ninja 2 if you put them side by side, but it's sufficiently smaller and lighter in use (not nearly as thick) that the Ninja 2 feels like an obnoxious burden when on a one-person shoot, whereas this balances the camera just a little for the worse but overall feels like an invisible natural extension of the camera. HUGE difference. You're back to the dSLR form factor... Of course, the issue is that on a bigger shoot with an AC who wants a monitor, the Ninja 2 gives you a monitor... this doesn't. But for that shoot can't you just rent an Alexa? :) For those who like to build their cameras out, this might just mean adding a monitor and building it out further but for those who want the best image quality/ergonomics in a small single operator rig... It's cool, at least ergonomically.

The 24p cadence detection is MUCH better than on the Ninja 2.... at least so far. Going to find out soon if we have any trip ups with cadence or need for hand waving. Record trigger works fine.

Footage looks great, as expected. Texture is nice. I know the conventional wisdom here is that pros use DNXHD, but don't tell Arri. :)

It is indeed nearly weightless, but the battery is pretty heavy and the mounting plate is quite heavy! Goofy. But it still balances out so much better than the Ninja 2 on an arm.... So much better. The mounting plate appears versatile, however.

The design of the soft storage case is handsome if fatally stupid. It comes with an enormous charger that takes up the same space in the case as the entire unit and battery, which are stored on the other side. I get that the charger has every travel option but just buy a tiny charger instead and save half the space. It also comes with space for ONE battery.... great for all those 5-hour days on set lol. You obviously have to order another battery, and there's no space for it, though the case has room to easily accommodate another. But the worst part is that THE RECORDER DOESN'T FIT IN THE CARRYING CASE WHEN THE MOUNTING PLACE (which requires a phillips head screwdriver to install/remove) IS INSTALLED! This is beyond stupid. A re-engineered case insert with room for the plate and charger in one compartment and two compartments for batteries is nearly essential. Then I'd just strip the charging unit down to the minimum and put the micro HDMI and reader and two cards in with it.

Micro HDMI inspires no confidence. What's the warranty on this again?

Build quality/fit and finish is a step up from other Atomos products, but again you get the dumb ass design flaws.

I am only getting 60MB/80MB off the Super Talent cards, which are rated at 80MB/300MB, but it's easily enough for prores hq.

If you bought a C100 and like it for the dSLR form factor, I would recommend this thing pretty strongly. But if you like to shoot it like a "cinema" camera look elsewhere. Lack of monitoring options is a real potential concern and mounting both this and a monitor could be a pain.

Anyone want to buy a lightly used Ninja 2?
 
I found that the recorder with the plate installed fits well in the spot where the charger is supposed to go. Get all the charger adapters out and the cigarette adapter and put charger in that spot instead. Leaves space for a second battery where the recorder is supposed to be originally.

Problem solved ;)
 
jameshealey said:
I found that the recorder with the plate installed fits well in the spot where the charger is supposed to go. Get all the charger adapters out and the cigarette adapter and put charger in that spot instead. Leaves space for a second battery where the recorder is supposed to be originally.

Problem solved ;)
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It remains a conspicuously poor design.

That said, I like the product overall. If the micro HDMI proves durable (and maybe it will, it's not like regular HDMI is so great either) and I can find a monitor to replace the Ninja 2 (when I need a monitor) I will be very pleased.

The 24p detection is awesome, locked on very fast in no light at 850ISO up to 80,000 ISO and no cadence errors so far.
 
Policar said:
It remains a conspicuously poor design.

That said, I like the product overall. If the micro HDMI proves durable (and maybe it will, it's not like regular HDMI is so great either) and I can find a monitor to replace the Ninja 2 (when I need a monitor) I will be very pleased.

The 24p detection is awesome, locked on very fast in no light at 850ISO up to 80,000 ISO and no cadence errors so far.
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Oh I agreee, the case is not very good. I was thinking of using a pelican case foam insert and using that inside the atomos case to customize it. I can see that working well and it would be reasonably cheap to do. I have my recorder paired with two DP4 monitors (when I need two anyways), one with the EVF attachement and they work very nicely together and keeps the weight and size to a minimum.
 
Thanks for this thorough review! I'm about to pull the trigger on this. I too have a Ninja 2 but am tired of the weight and bulk it adds. I find the monitor of the Ninja 2 to be pretty sub-par so that part of it wont be missed at all.
 
I think you'll like it. I am surprised that I do miss the monitor sometimes, but overall I prefer the ergonomics quite a bit.
 
I ordered one and it's on its way. Trying to figure out if the C100 is shooting 24p mode, then what setting do you put the Star on as far as "Convert"? There is no reason to select convert if in 24p mode (Not 24PF mode), however there doesnt appear to be an "off" setting for that indicator. The other settings seem self explanatory, but that one is vague and there is little mention of it in the online manual.
 
Ok the Ninja Star arrived just a little while ago. When I have the C100 set to 24p mode (Not 24PF mode), and leave the Star set to "Lock", you would think it would work properly and record a clean 24p file. It doesnt seem to. It looks all whacky when I play it back on the computer using QT right off the card. When I set the Star to "convert 60i-24p", the files look correct. Not sure why? On my Ninja 2 recorder, I just set both the C100 and Ninja 2 to record 1080 24p and everything looks fine. Is the proper setting on the Star for clean 24p to have the light on for "Convert 60i-24p"?

Thanks for any info you as stated the manual is basically non-existant on this thing!
 
Paul Frederick said:
Ok the Ninja Star arrived just a little while ago. When I have the C100 set to 24p mode (Not 24PF mode), and leave the Star set to "Lock", you would think it would work properly and record a clean 24p file. It doesnt seem to. It looks all whacky when I play it back on the computer using QT right off the card. When I set the Star to "convert 60i-24p", the files look correct. Not sure why? On my Ninja 2 recorder, I just set both the C100 and Ninja 2 to record 1080 24p and everything looks fine. Is the proper setting on the Star for clean 24p to have the light on for "Convert 60i-24p"?

Thanks for any info you as stated the manual is basically non-existant on this thing!
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The C100 never ever outputs a true 24P stream via the HDMI. It is always packing the 24P into a 60i stream. Therefore you need to have external recorders detect and remove the extra inserted fields if you want true progressive retained. The internal recorder of the C100 is the only place where the true 24P vs the 24PsF feature makes a difference. I am not sure why anyone would want the builtin codec to be24P in a 60i stream however. So....the bottom line is you are going to need to use the 60i to 24P setting on the Ninja Star as I do on the Ninja Blade and the Ninja 2.

Good Luck.
 
Thanks for the info! I did not realize the HDMI out of the C100 was always in a 60i stream. It may also be why on my Ninja 2 I would sometimes get interlaced like artifacts on the footage! I always just put both the C100 and the Ninja 2 on 24p. It seemed to lock in fine and the footage looked good about 98% of the time. Every once in a while it would have interlaced lines in it however. I guess it was doing some kind of automatic interpreting and occasionally stumbled!

Thanks again for the info!
 
Paul Frederick said:
Thanks for the info! I did not realize the HDMI out of the C100 was always in a 60i stream. It may also be why on my Ninja 2 I would sometimes get interlaced like artifacts on the footage! I always just put both the C100 and the Ninja 2 on 24p. It seemed to lock in fine and the footage looked good about 98% of the time. Every once in a while it would have interlaced lines in it however. I guess it was doing some kind of automatic interpreting and occasionally stumbled!

Thanks again for the info!
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The Ninja2 would require some level of moving the camera to allow the CPU to interpret the cadence and remove it. With the Ninja Blade it seems almost automatic. It just outright detects the cadence without the need for the movement. I assume the Ninja Star has the same circuit. Heck...I am hoping my Ninja 2 with firmware update can do the same. The Star just has a preset that blatantly tells you what it is doing.

I had many incidents when the Ninja2 would screw up the cadence in the middle of the shoot. The only saving grace was that I could fix it in post.
 
icicle22 said:
I had many incidents when the Ninja2 would screw up the cadence in the middle of the shoot. The only saving grace was that I could fix it in post.
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How? I've had that happen before, too, and had to go back to the AVCHD. It seems to be if it gets the cadence wrong it's throwing away real, unrecoverable, fields, and doubling others.
 
Policar said:
How? I've had that happen before, too, and had to go back to the AVCHD. It seems to be if it gets the cadence wrong it's throwing away real, unrecoverable, fields, and doubling others.
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Sorry. Let me clarify. The Ninja2 somehow spontaneously switched to 60i and I had the 24P stream embedded in it. I was able to detect and remove that in post using After Effects. Whenever my Ninja2 would lose track of the cadence in 24P it would tend to stop. I'd have to wave my hand or move the camera to get it to "resync" before I could record again.
 
Can anyone who uses it regularly comment on how the HDMI connector holds up?
Do you use anything to secure it as it doesn't look like it has a locking screw?
 
interesting information about HDMI out and not being progressive and going out in 60i. not that i was planning on buying a star or ninja but still good to know.

david
 
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