C100: Ninja Prores422 or Dnx185x for avid project ?

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zavatta

Member
I need to shoot next week for 5 days with a C300 (that I don't have and no money to rent it) I told the company that I can shoot with my C100 with my Ninja 2 with the exact same quality as a C300.
It's for broadcast in France. They edit with Avid.
What should I deliver for the best quality : Apple Prores422 or DnxHD 185x (so much space…)
My preference goes with Prores422, but is it a problem with Avid ?
Thanks
 
In my experience, I don't think anyone would complain if you delivered Prores 422. If they are on Avid, they'll likely transcode to DNXHD anyway, so you could shoot DNXHD to help them out. You can likely do DNXHD 175 (or 185.. not 100% familiar with the options present in the Ninja), you don't need 185x as that is 10bit, and the C100 is 8-bit (so you're wasting space basically). DNXHD 185 (not 185x) would be 8-bit.
 
What do you mean ? I thought that you had 8 bits (even 10…) with Prores422. Is it just Prores HQ ? C100 is already 8 bits right ?
 
zavatta said:
What do you mean ? I thought that you had 8 bits (even 10…) with Prores422. Is it just Prores HQ ? C100 is already 8 bits right ?
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ProRes is a 10bit codec. If they had a 8bit version it would create smaller files. The C100 is a 8 bit camera.
 
I think so but others feel different. I even read an article on a blog that stated the C100 is putting out more than 8bit from the HDMI output. More like 9. I dont know about that but I can disprove it either.
 
If I could I would shoot Avchd. I am not sure they will need 4.2.2. They don't do post.
The Avchd codec compression is damn good, I don't really see a difference with Prores422. But I said that I had like a C300…
You know how clients are...
 
zavatta said:
If I could I would shoot Avchd. I am not sure they will need 4.2.2. They don't do post.
The Avchd codec compression is damn good, I don't really see a difference with Prores422. But I said that I had like a C300…
You know how clients are...
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To meet broadcast standard, the colour sampling has to be at least 4:2:2

In the UK, BBC requires 50Mbps 422 for interframe compressed footage and 100Mbps 422 for intraframe compressed footage. Not sure about France but I would assume it's about the same since they are all part of EBU.
 
marvinhello said:
To meet broadcast standard, the colour sampling has to be at least 4:2:2

In the UK, BBC requires 50Mbps 422 for interframe compressed footage and 100Mbps 422 for intraframe compressed footage. Not sure about France but I would assume it's about the same since they are all part of EBU.
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If your shooting for broadcast definitely go 4:2:2.
 
May be true for the BBC but I shoot all the time 4.2.0 avchd for french TV.
This one is a new client and he wanted the C300, so...
 
zavatta said:
May be true for the BBC but I shoot all the time 4.2.0 avchd for french TV.
This one is a new client and he wanted the C300, so...
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If the broadcaster is an EBU member, you'll need to deliver as per Marvin's post. They're possibly speccing the C300 because it's Canon's box-ticking large sensor answer to minimum spec EBU reqs. Producers want that look and the engineers grudgingly accept the ageing 50 Meg codec.

Find out what version of Avid they're using. Versions 6 and onwards work with ProRes - either as AMA-linked or (better) fast imported into Avid and re-wrapped to ProRes MXF.

I've just installed the DNx codecs on a Blade and they offer DNx 36 (low bitrate), 145 (8 bit codec) and 220/220x (10 bit)

I think I'd suggest ProRes 422 - a 10 bit, 422 codec at what I consider to be the sweet-spot for the kind of acquisition you're talking about here. I've shot or transcoded to PR422 for the past 6 years or so - including landmark BBC/Discovery multi-million dollar co-productions.

Ben.
 
And what if I shoot Avchd and transcode it with ClipWrap in Prores422 ?
Would they see the difference with the Prores422 files from the Ninja ?
 
zavatta said:
And what if I shoot Avchd and transcode it with ClipWrap in Prores422 ?
Would they see the difference with the Prores422 files from the Ninja ?
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I'm quite certain they would for any shots that have high motion in them. If it's a talking head interview...then maybe not. The extra bits when shooting really helps in areas of high motion, like leaves blowing in trees, waves in water, motion shots like shooting out a car window...etc.
 
zavatta said:
And what if I shoot Avchd and transcode it with ClipWrap in Prores422 ?
Would they see the difference with the Prores422 files from the Ninja ?
Click to expand...

Possibly not. But if they suspect anything and audit your rushes, kiss goodbye to your career (and your professional indemnity insurance.)

Ben.
 
William_Robinette said:
If they are editing in AVID shoot DNxHD.

Because if my car takes petrol, I don't try and shove diesel down it's filler cap.
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Sure - except any Avid beyond version 6 will happily work with ProRes. The suggestion was based on keeping the bitrate lower and comparing the available codecs on the Ninja. The analogy of petrol/diesel is perhaps a little extreme.

Ben.
 
Ok good point for the career…I was just asking (I say that just in case they are reading…). I'll shoot Prores 422 with the Ninja.
 
I shoot DNxHD on my Ninja2 all the time for Avid.
It makes for a smooth ingesting...Avid seems to like it. You can either link AMA or *Consolidate* (no need for transcoding when it's DNxHD).
Works nicely for me. I guess I'd assume the editors would also appreciate.
 
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