Nikon Z9 with internal 8K 60p RAW !

NorBro said:
Canon does the same thing with the R5, but even worse with just regular 4K/60p ALL-I. If Panasonic had a camera that utilized other media they'd do the same thing.
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In the case of the R5 the 4K60 ALL-I recording modes have a data rate of 940 Mbps (117 MB/s) in 8-bit or a data rate of 1000 Mbps (125 MB/s) when recording in 10-bit log. Since these data rates exceed the 90 MB/s minimum guaranteed write speed of V90 SD cards, it makes sense that CFexpress cards are required.

Now, whether such a high data rate is actually required for ALL-I is hard to say, but the 4K ALL-I recording modes on the R5 are pretty consistently 3x to 4x the data rate of the corresponding IPB mode (whether recording 4K30 or 4K60). The data rates are a bit on the high side, but for comparison, another ALL-I codec like 10-bit ProRes 422 at 4K60 has a data rate of 1257 Mbps. H.264 and H.265 are probably a bit more efficient than ProRes, but this comes more into play when there is temporal compression in interframe (IPB) recording rather than intraframe (ALL-I) encoding. So overall, these data rates don't seem so crazy.

The other thing to consider is that Canon does not sell their own CFexpress cards (unlike Sony), so I'm not sure that they have any real incentive to encourage people to buy particular types of cards. Not to mention that the CFexpress Type B variant that Canon went with in the R5 actually has a very competitive market with quite a few card vendors. And for the higher capacity CFexpress Type B cards (256GB or especially 512GB or higher), current pricing is around $1 or so per GB, which is actually fairly similar to the pricing for V90 SD cards of that capacity. So the higher capacity CFexpress Type B cards actually represent better value than SD cards since they are considerably faster, but comparably priced.

So, while the camera manufacturers are often guilty of more than their fair share of shenanigans, I actually think Canon's decisions are somewhat defensible here. Now Sony's requirement of CFexpress Type A on the other hand, well that's a different situation ...
 
In all fairness, I think it was an awesome trick done by Sony to provide 2 dual-use card slots (either cfexpress type-a or sd in either slot). That's a lovely design feature dependent on the similar shape of sd and cfexpress type-a (but not type-b).

That being said, they should remove the card filtering subroutine from the cameras. The ProGrade V90 cards I just bought claim a maximum write speed of 250MB/s. So, I could probably record 4K 120fps ALL-I with those cards for some duration or even indefinitely. I believe that Doug Jensen said as much about Sony TOUGH SD cards on his FX6 (which doesn't prohibit recording modes based on what media you've inserted)
 
davedv said:
In the case of the R5 the 4K60 ALL-I recording modes have a data rate of 940 Mbps (117 MB/s) in 8-bit or a data rate of 1000 Mbps (125 MB/s) when recording in 10-bit log. Since these data rates exceed the 90 MB/s minimum guaranteed write speed of V90 SD cards, it makes sense that CFexpress cards are required.

Now, whether such a high data rate is actually required for ALL-I is hard to say, but the 4K ALL-I recording modes on the R5 are pretty consistently 3x to 4x the data rate of the corresponding IPB mode (whether recording 4K30 or 4K60). The data rates are a bit on the high side, but for comparison, another ALL-I codec like 10-bit ProRes 422 at 4K60 has a data rate of 1257 Mbps. H.264 and H.265 are probably a bit more efficient than ProRes, but this comes more into play when there is temporal compression in interframe (IPB) recording rather than intraframe (ALL-I) encoding. So overall, these data rates don't seem so crazy.

The other thing to consider is that Canon does not sell their own CFexpress cards (unlike Sony), so I'm not sure that they have any real incentive to encourage people to buy particular types of cards. Not to mention that the CFexpress Type B variant that Canon went with in the R5 actually has a very competitive market with quite a few card vendors. And for the higher capacity CFexpress Type B cards (256GB or especially 512GB or higher), current pricing is around $1 or so per GB, which is actually fairly similar to the pricing for V90 SD cards of that capacity. So the higher capacity CFexpress Type B cards actually represent better value than SD cards since they are considerably faster, but comparably priced.

So, while the camera manufacturers are often guilty of more than their fair share of shenanigans, I actually think Canon's decisions are somewhat defensible here. Now Sony's requirement of CFexpress Type A on the other hand, well that's a different situation ...
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I do hear you, but this only makes sense [to me] if you believe what the companies are saying. lol

IMO, the cards are surely capable of recording the higher data rates.

And although Canon doesn't make their own cards, tech companies in the same business have relationships. The media manufactures require assistance when creating media for cameras which seem to become more complex each year.
 
And V90 is the minimum, not maximum. They are guaranteed to write 90 MB/s but it's open to research to see if they could, or would for at least some time, sustain 125 MB/s.

Several on the market claim 250+ MB/s (as ahalpert noted on his own purchase).
 
I see an ad in my Facebook feed. Nikon is advertising Z9 as the DP Review Camera of the Year. (DPR also likes A1 and A7IV). And, naturally, a photo-video site takes a slice off any gear it sells via its retail partners.
 
NorBro said:
After Apple lost, the next logical step was to find a temporary suitor for ProRes RAW (while they work on their own cameras) and for whatever reason Nikon was chosen. But Canon and Sony probably have such big plans for 2022+ that it's going to make some of us retire, ha.

Beautiful changes coming to cameras, and I feel super old.
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looking forward to this. just in time for my eyes to start going bad.
 
Some pages ago I was moaning about the loss of my nikkor 400 2.8 d to this system, the z 400 2.8 is out - im sure it is excellent but its $14g. which means you absolutely have to be a dentist or doing pro sport every weekend.

which does stifle climbing the nikon ladder.. and it seems a dumb 'investment' as thre is no af/nd/xlr cam it will fit so rentals will be 5% of a canon or sony big lens

these costs have to work over decades.

https://nikonrumors.com/2022/01/19/nikon-nikkor-z-400mm-f-2-8-tc-vr-s-lens-pre-order-options.aspx/
 
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