Nikon in Dire Straits

DLD said:
Year's loss $446M. The boss is blaming a slow transition to mirrorless. I blame playing the second fiddle to Sony.

Rumors persist that Nikon may sell-off its photo-video division a la Olympus.
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Panasonic will go first I think. They’re looking to sell. Anyone else noticed the change with support for panny Cine cameras ?

I predict Sigma will buy. L mount simpatico.

JB
 
combatentropy said:
Thanks. That graphic makes me feel a lot better. In fact, if the blue stayed at its pre-smartphone level, I would feel worse, because that would mean that people are weeeeeird.
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P&S models paid for the R&D and the company corporate infrastructure. The mobile phone would have killed it sooner or later but, by holding the specs down and the prices up, the cartel made sure it was sooner.

combatentropy said:
Maybe Canon and Nikon should get into the smartphone business :) Then again, LG is thinking of getting out of it.
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LG just introduced a mobile phone/tablet with a rollable screen that doesn't have the crease line of the Samsung and the Motorola foldables. Plus, 5G is at a nascent stage on the global level. Maybe it's the WSJ that's "losing to the Chinese".

John Brawley said:
Panasonic will go first I think. They’re looking to sell. Anyone else noticed the change with support for panny Cine cameras ?

I predict Sigma will buy. L mount simpatico.

JB
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The rumors had Panasonic rolling the photo-video into their consumer electronics division. They're also one of the last few remaining manufacturers that can make own sensors (or partner up with a third party not named Sony).

On the other hand, aside of all the lines they're currently into, they're getting deeper and deeper into the battery business. At some point, they'll be facing the same situation as Samsung - the photo-video industry is declining on the whole and ain't worth the trouble.

Which means it'll be a two party system. As many predict.

PS. On Canon Rumors, there was a post few weeks ago that referred to Canon slowing down the rate of new model introductions due to "circumstances" - Covid, the electric plant fire, declining market etc. They were supposed to release a bunch of RF cameras in 2021, including the APS-C, but now they may spread it out over a longer period. It's hard to tell if that's a legitimate rumor or a plant. There's certainly a financial opportunity to milk R5 and R6 for anything those are worth.

But this could also be bad news for consumers and that is, after a quick flare up in hostilities between Canon and Sony for R5 not being sufficiently crippled, the tensions will lessen and the cartel will return in full force as soon as Sony's 8K model comes out. That announcement should be shortly. We'll know more by the end of February at the (virtual) CP+.

PPS. There was a gentleman here, once connected to Panasonic.
 
John Brawley said:
Ahhh no, Panny sold their sensor business a while ago....

JB
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That's because they completely went in with Sony, including the full frame.

And, btw, the Petapixel is wrong about the smartphone sensor market. Sony has 44%, Samsung 32%, OmniVision 9%. But there are a lot of smaller players too.
 
FWIW, Panasonic will be at the virtual CP+ at the end of February (supposedly, February will not be virtual).

Olympus will be there (in spirit) as well.
 
puredrifting said:
I thought Nikon has bought Sony sensors for all of their mirrorless and DSLRs for a long time? No?
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Some were Toshiba but Toshiba sold their division to ... someone.

morgan_moore said:
And there are those of us who speculate that they only get offered old technology therefore.. holding them off the curve
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Nikon buys the same sensors from Sony as everyone else but their versions are crippled differently than Panasonic's. They retain more phase detect points, while Panasonic contrast detect. To play ball, Sony cripples codecs, releasing high priced cameras with only 8-bit recording. Sony also tends to price their models somewhat above the market, with A7SIII being a grand more than A7SII.

PS. Canon crippled R5 and R6 with the fake heat management problems but then they decided to change course and now offer arguably the best buy in R5 for the high end hybrid. And that puts Nikon and Panasonic into a bind because their high end models S1R and Z7II offer only a line skipping 4K.
 
Nikon buys .. Sony .. crippled

Indeed and this cabal situation defeats the nikonite dream. 60nefs per second with no cinema line to protect.

A D7f camera with a bolt on bottom with a big hard drive and mini XLRs (most likely an alexa eater)

As a D3 owner at the time JJ was building the Red One it was clear he had a D3 too and said.. 'thats what we want but for filming'
 
puredrifting said:
I thought Nikon has bought Sony sensors for all of their mirrorless and DSLRs for a long time? No?
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they used sensors from Toshiba, TowerJazz & Aptina for less important bodies, but have almost exclusively used sony sensors in all the professional ones
 
puredrifting said:
I thought Nikon has bought Sony sensors for all of their mirrorless and DSLRs for a long time? No?
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morgan_moore said:
Nikon buys .. Sony .. crippled

Indeed and this cabal situation defeats the nikonite dream. 60nefs per second with no cinema line to protect.

A D7f camera with a bolt on bottom with a big hard drive and mini XLRs (most likely an alexa eater)

As a D3 owner at the time JJ was building the Red One it was clear he had a D3 too and said.. 'thats what we want but for filming'
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the cartel might allow a purposely too late Nikon video-centric body now that we are onto the next cycle of metering out the expected baseline feature set into a masterful arrangement of releases where each has one special crutch & one special niche; preserving the established arrangement. It will be hobbled in a way that makes it's main attraction reasonable price & 'good enough' compared to canon & sony's nearest equivalent.

Nikon has to be toast, the die is cast and it is just going to be Canon & Sony eventually. Sad for me as a 25 year Nikon shooter. It just doesn't make sense to buy into a Z system unless you can make all of your money off stills - something only a tiny number of shooters can claim. Their cameras are still my favorite to use, their lenses generally superb & systems have always been incredibly reliable for me. They could make a $3500 36mpx s1h with great af in a heartbeat and at least convince whatever loyal core they still have not to abandon them.

More likely that they just continue as before and plan to only sell a handful of entry bodies to naive new shooters, sell even less to rich bird watchers and soon to be retired sports shooters before being bought by sony sooner rather than later
 
This is computer translated from the Japanese -

Nikon, the day to withdraw from the camera ... Crisis with the worst deficit ever, 50% of sales evaporate, digital camera catastrophic

According to research firm Techno System Research, Sony is the leader in the mirrorless market from January to September 2008 with a 35% share. Canon (30%) is in second place. Nikon, which ranks second in SLR cameras, is behind Fujifilm (12%) and Olympus (8%) at 7.5%.

The observation that "Nikon may also withdraw from the camera following Olympus" (a person concerned) emerged is a picture of Nikon's suffering. Can Nikon's camera business continue?
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https://translate.google.com/transl...tps://biz-journal.jp/2021/03/post_211003.html

Not sure how they got 2008 in there. Nonetheless ...
 
Meanwhile, Nikon has promised to DPReview that a mirrorless D6 equivalent with a “high-resolution stacked CMOS sensor” and 8K video will arrive within a year.

https://www.dpreview.com/interviews...orless-camera-can-be-expected-within-the-year

Since high-res stacked CMOS full-frame sensors are not a commodity item, I’d expect that to be the sensor in the Sony α1, with by far the fastest readout among comparable products. That spells good video. And Nikon has already got BRAW and ProRes RAW output support in existing products, so it would be reasonable to expect those too.

More signs that Nikon has finally understood that video is important to their future.
 
Samuel Dilworth said:
.... More signs that Nikon has finally understood that video is important to their future.
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For as long as Nikon, Panasonic and Olympus remain fully dependent on Sony sensors, they're guaranteed to provide only an appearance of competition. With Nikon only reaching a sub-7% market share in mirrorless, it's driving customers into the Sony bosoms. As time goes on, the E-mount and the R-mount share will climb higher than their current 65% combined and both the Z- and the L- will be left fighting for crumbs. Panasonic will then follow Samsung's exit strategy, as keeping up appearances of still being in the photo-video business won't be worth the bother. Nikon can be supported almost infinitely by Mitsubishi but, as a low single digit market participant, probably won't be.

And then there will be two big players and a couple of "names only".

PS. There's a wild rumor originating from China about Canon's R1. 85 MPX, OLED screen, global shutter, $8,500. The wild part is $8,500. Without the 8K video, it'll probably be half that.
 
Saw the R1 rumor the other day on CR. Only small bits of it are plausible, in my opinion. Neither being the 85Mpix sensor or the price.
 
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