Nex-vg10 b cam ?

[Jade Lane]

Please don't shoot me down for what i'm about to say !

I've looked all over this forum for positives about the NEX-VG10 but all I see is people saying how rubbish a camera it is.

Firstly, I'm a 5DMk2 user and have been trying to order the AF-101 with no luck til Feb. All the footage I've seen of the NEX-VG10 is beautiful, there maybe issues that I'm not professional enough to notice but purely from 'The look' I must say I prefer the footage to my 5DMk2 with Zeiss ZE set and Anything I've seen from the AF-101 (this is purely my opinion).

Is it really as bad as people say ? apart from the plastic tripod mount what are the real issues ?

Maybe some future firmware updates will work wonders ?

I like its compact size and wonder if it would be a better B-Cam to the AF-101 than the 5DMk2.

Also, all the footage i've seen was shot with the standard Sony kit lens, I'd like to see some footage with Zeiss Glass.

 

[pulpfiction007]

The lack of 24P and 30P (although it's sensor scans at 30P) xlr inputs and audio control are a few of the things that put people off on this. Also...tha aliasing is still there on this camera, because it's designed to shoot stills as well as video. They should have made it a 4MP sensor, instead of a 14MP one. All that being said, there are a lot of people very happy with it and I agree some of the footage does look real nice. It has a great EVF and a nice LCD as well... I think if you don't mind the 24P thing and you want a better form factor than a DLSR, it's a good choice.

 

[Jason Allen]

The lack of framerate choices is somewhat limiting (I would love 720p/60p for slow motion and 1080p/24p for my documentary film work), but what do you expect in a Handycam-class camera? Footage from my VG10 cuts VERY nicely with 720p/30p footage from my HVX200 and Nikon D7000.

Some look at the camera as a $2000 soccer mom's camera. It's really a $1200 camera with a pretty decent $800 10:1 zoom lens and a fully capable edit suite included (Vegas). Add an adapter, and you can use a slew of other lenses (primes, zooms, tilt shift glass, macro lenses, supertelephoto SLR monster lenses, etc). I has a mini-pin stereo input for microphones, and you can feed XLR into it via an adapter (I use the Beachtek DXA-4). The EVF is very nice, and the LCD screen is also very nice - side by side, it really makes the HVX's screen look like the inadequate low resolution mess that it is.

Its real achilles' heel is manual audio gain control: there isn't any. As a "B" cam, that's not an issue, and as a guerilla cam, the onboard mic is probably the best I've ever used (that quad-capsule thingamajigger really kicks butt- just be careful about handling noise).

If you need 60p for slowmo, 24p for the "film look" or actually delivering to film, this isn't your camera. For an HD project in a 30p work environment, it is a capable addition to your kit.

 

[uhoh7]

Takes any lens made since 1945, cheap tilt adapters available, 1.8x crop in video.

As said great LCD, great onboard mic.

Any good? Check the footage.

Put a fast lens on the thing and you can shoot in the dark. Here's a little test one guy did recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqcM7gsSnto

nothing great, but you get the idea.

maybe GH2 is better, but no fixed lens camcorder can do what this flawed EVIL thing can.

 

[olindacat]

I just got the VG10 for exactly this purpose. I haven't spent much time with it as it only arrived today, but am excited to learn on it.

 

[Shotgal]

If you need 60p for slowmo, 24p for the "film look" or actually delivering to film, this isn't your camera.

Then what is? NEX-VG20 maybe? Are there any 60p/24p for a starving student budget though?

 

[jdv]

Then what is? NEX-VG20 maybe? Are there any 60p/24p for a starving student budget though?

The Canon T2i goes for around $650 new, and is all but indistinguishable from the Canon Mark II/7D/60 in terms of video quality - and can use all that Canon glass (or Nikon w/ adapter). Panny GH2 goes for a grand - the hacks are producing some amazing footage. The Sony VG20 $1,600, but come largely crippled in terms of features (but does have "true video camera" form factor and a mic).

All do 24p. All have large-ish sensors. You can get a Canon Mark II refurbed from Canon directly for $2,000. The next step up from those cams is the Canon X105 series, starting at around $3,000 (but has 1/3" chip set).'s Next step is the AF100, which is going for $4,500 new/$4K used. Then the Sony FS100 for $5,000.

And that's pretty much it for large chip, 24p cams under $5,000.

 

[Shotgal]

Thanks John! I'll look into those, but I'm hoping to stay away from the full DSLR format probably. The VG10 I was considering is for my 22 year old son, total newbie, looking to get his feet wet in music video production.

I already shoot full frame Sony Alpha, so getting into Canon isn't optimal...I already have premium A Mount Zeiss glass to potentially loan him.

I've also alternatively (due to budget) been looking seriously at the Sony NEX- 5N crazy as that sounds - just hoping to see what others can do with it first!
The NEX-5N is also considered a large chip 24p cam under $5K isn't it??

 

[jdv]

Hey Shotgal, you're welcome - Yup, the 5n is large sensor too. If it's for a total newbie, you could certainly do worse the the VG20. It's crippled in terms of turning down sharpness and altering the image in camera (essentially it has only 2 settings - default, and cinematone), but it's still producing very nice images and is a "one stop camera."

With any of the DSLRs, you're pretty much stuck with getting off board mics and more often than not, and off board recording device like the Zoom hn1. The VG10/20 offer built in mics, and the ability to plug in low cost 1/8" jack mics (like the popular Rode series) without buying additional adapters. Buy the VG20 with the kit lens, and you're done.

The VG10 should be dropping in price, but will likely never have 24p - although a December firmware update has been announced by Sony, aiming primarily to allow the VG10 to use to new LA-EA2 lens adapter which would let him use that glass you already own, but hopefully 24 p as well).

From a pure money perspective, it's hard to beat a T2i - cheap, study, and it gets you into the world of DSLRs and interchangable lenses. Add a nifty fifty for $110, and you're looking at camera that can produce stunning images for less than $800. And there's the magic lantern hack for the T2i (which I've used extensively) that adds a lot of functionality. Sound recording still an issue though.

It's a tough call. If you have the dough, the VG20 is likely a better choice then anything except a Mark II (which, because of it's crazy huge sensor, still wins the hearts and minds of many shooters). Despite it's shortcomings, I'm still looking at the VG20 - long record times, excellent built-in mic, good low light shooting, video cam form factor - are all big pluses. It's over-priced IMO, but still a very nice camera.

Bottom line for me? Bang for buck: T2i Best all-in-one large sensor 24p cam: VG20 Best all-in-one camera w/o 24p: VG10

Looks like a refurbed VG10 can be had for $1,600, while ebay seems to have them for $1,500 used.

BTW - 24p isn't necessary for making great video. LOTS of stuff shot at 30p (and pal of course is 25p). After all, Peter Jackson is shooting THE HOBBIT at 48fps...

 

[Shotgal]

Thanks once again John - Excellent info! I know at the onset he'll be doing nothing but lip sync to pre-recorded audio - which should be easily locked in with a rough reference track... though audio I/O may mean something more in the long run and probably just end up going with a Zoom etc.

The NEX-5N came on sale for $599 shipped with the 18-55 kit 3.5 lens and I couldn't resist and bought it. Not the greatest lens, but a functional range to start with. A cheap adapter opens the door to limitless choices as add ons. The size of the thing might be goofy, but it can also easily go places none of the others can go! The VG 20 was out of reach and he'll surely want to spend more on lights, jib and other outboard gear. The VG10 is still tempting, even lacking 24p (like you said - that's not completely necessary). Prices on them will continue to fall with the VG20 replacement. And you're right, the firmware update surely won't add 24p. I ran into a VG10 for $1250 nearly new with the 18-200 lens - really really tempting!

Besides the gear, he's going to have to learn post too. It's a lot to take on, so for now - baby steps and keeping it simple was part of the choice for the N5 - use it for 6 months or so and sell/upgrade if warranted. Not a huge financial loss, there - so that would end up being a really cheap rental. There's a chance that a second camera would be the next move at that point anyway - with the N5 continuing on, becoming the B cam.

Thanks again for the discussion!