NEX FS 100 footage thread and links

BobbyMurcerFan said:
Kholi,

Are you playing the mts file natively in CS5? And what codec did you trancode to to play it in FCP? Thanks.
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Native in CS5 (5.0.3) with an Alienware M11X Netbook, Windows 7.

AVC HD Converted to ProRes in FCP through Log And Transfer, and Pro Res files that originated from Atomos Ninja in FCP.

However, with FCP, had an issue with seeing the 1080/60 stuff so just used my Netbook instead.

AVC HD is a bare to work with, but transcoding it takes even longer.
 
Good idea. I just transcoded to both 1:1 (8 bit) and 1:1 (10 bit). I have a Nitris DX here. But... same aliasing... no different.

Bobby, Kholi and Dusty > I just PM you another scene for your testing. I don't want to post it public as it is a difficult situation which any camera may just alias as well. May not be fair to FS100.
 
henryolonga said:
Kholi - is your netbook LCD full HD?
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Nah, sadly it is not. Haha. Can't wait til 11" Displays become 1080 or better! But, for now it's 1280 x 720 accurate.

It has an HDMI port that spits out plenty, so I connect it to one of my LCD's for second screen or the 46" Samsung TV.

Works like a charm.
 
tengo said:
Good idea. I just transcoded to both 1:1 (8 bit) and 1:1 (10 bit). I have a Nitris DX here. But... same aliasing... no different.

Bobby, Kholi and Dusty > I just PM you another scene for your testing. I don't want to post it public as it is a difficult situation which any camera may just alias as well. May not be fair to FS100.
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tengo,

I think I may have found out what's going on here.

In Avid, make sure the display quality is "green." Open the Effects Toolset and blowup the image to 4X (by pressing Ctrl+Click three times). Move the image (by pressing Ctrl+Alt) so you see the foot board of the scooter. You shouldn't see any aliasing. Cycling through the different display quality settings, e.g. yellow, to half-green, to green will causing aliasing to appear. So this is a function of the display settings, not of the actual footage or codec used, AFAICT.

HTH.
 
That "aliasing" may appear because the program thinks that the image is interlaced and then proceeds to deinterlace it. Doesn't happen on my system. Looks clean.
 
Yes. Display quality was set to "Green (10 bit)". I am using Nitris DX.

Anyhow, I am going to let the matter rest. I guess since quite a few testers have said there is no aliasing on their NLE, then it's most probably due to the NLE.

When the actual camera is out, people can test again.

Cheers
 
maarek,

This could certainly be the case in some instances. But in mine, it seems caused by a combination of the NLE's display resolution setting and the image size. At certain combinations of settings, a moire pattern is created. But increasing the image resolution and size shows that the aliasing is a result of monitor moire and is not part of the recorded image.

I've tested this with the file that tengo has PM'd me. It shows essentially no aliasing. It aliases badly when I first open it. But once I adjust the display settings, it goes away. There is still some shimmering on the blinds, but that seems to be a result of subtle compression artifacting.

So, FWIW, I don't see any aliasing issues.
 
tengo said:
Yes. Display quality was set to "Green (10 bit)". I am using Nitris DX.

Anyhow, I am going to let the matter rest. I guess since quite a few testers have said there is no aliasing on their NLE, then it's most probably due to the NLE.

When the actual camera is out, people can test again.

Cheers
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tengo,

Just to clarify. It's not an Avid issue per se. For example, I can create horrible aliasing in Vegas or none at all.

It's an issue w/ how the video is being scaled to the monitor's resolution. Using green mode in Avid isn't enough. You also have to increase the image size to a point where the monitor moire goes away. The long and the short of it is that it's not a camera problem, nor is it a codec problem. It's just how the display size is being scaled.
 
Mystery solved and yet the answer is so simple.

Merry-Go-Round 1: Premiere Pro CS4 misinterpreted the footages as Upper Field First. I went back to my Premiere Pro CS4 project and explicitly check the field order. We do this in Premiere Pro CS4 by right clicking on the clip and choosing "Interpret Footage". And to my horror, it detected the clip's field order as "Upper Field First". My project and sequence settings were all along 1080p25. There was a thread on this issue but not an excuse for my carelessness: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?238025-AVCHD-Premiere-pro-Native/page2

Merry-Go-Round 2: Windows Media Player is also not interpreting the field order correctly.

Merry-Go-Round 3: Avid imported correctly at progressive. But the record window is showing moire/aliasing unless we scale up correctly. Exporting and watching in full screen confirms this. No aliasing.

After I change to progressive, there is now minimal aliasing, if any.

I apologize unreservedly to all for any trouble caused and I guess the only thing I could do is to re-encode the video with the correct field order asap in order to give back justice to the camera.

UPDATE: Video has already been re-encoded. You can download the full HD WMV from vimeo.
 
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Great to hear that it was a post issue as we thought and not indicative of the actual footage. Have you replaced the footage in your original link? I would either upload a corrected version or take down the original link from Vimeo so people don't get the wrong idea.

I just looked at the MTS file you posted in VLC. Compared to what you uploaded I don't see any aliasing issues. That is a huge relief.
 
Tengo, sorry you had to go through all that, but it's a good lesson to be learned by any future FS100 users. So, your predicament wasn't all in vain.
 
I downloaded the MTS file and agree, the aliasing looks as expected to me, VERY minimal. Compared to how that clip looked before, wow, talk about crazy. Thanks Tengo for working with people to get to the bottom of that, as everyone was REALLY surprised to see that.
 
BobbyMurcerFan said:
Can you post a screen print of the scooter's floor board?
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I downloaded the original MTS file and exported the same scooter frame. ( see link below ) There is virtually no aliasing in the image and the sharpness has increased significantly from the problem image I posted previously, which is likely due to working from original footage instead of the WMV transcode.

Overall the footage looks great!

FS-100 Screen Grab from Original MTS File : Double-click to Open Full Size
 
Thanks Dingo,

The thumbnail image shows exactly the type of aliasing I was seeing. It was due to the combination of monitor resolution, image resolution and image size. When I download the image to full resolution full size, the aliasing disappears. I could get the footage to alias badly or not at all in Avid, Vegas and TMPGEnc's playback windows simply by changing the display setting properties and image size.

It's pretty interesting.


BTW, tengo, I know that in my case it wasn't a field order issue in Avid b/c I'm using an older version that doesn't allow you to mix in interlaced material into a progressive project... so I couldn't specify a field order if I wanted to. But glad we got it all sorted out :).
 
This is one of the problems when AVCHD has progressive material inside a file that has an interlaced flag. Eventhough the footage is great, a lot of edit suite programs misinterpret the field settings. Final Cut Pro has been traditionally a pain in this area as a lot of progressive DV and HDV material is still being deinterlaced by editors that don't realize what happens behind the screen. Also the viewer doesn't always help, for example FCP does deinterlacing in the viewer if it is not 100%.
 
A score for Vegas Pro - with all 25PsF material from my EX1, I've always been using Progressive project settings. This correctly displays PsF contents without attempting to de-interlace it...
 
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