ok, I watched some videos about mics, read some articles. I need to shoot a concert which is help in a pretty big place. I got it that I need to connect the camera to a mixer board. But besides that, I have an idea to use Rode Stereo VideoMic X and to place it somewhere in the middle of the concert hall. But I don't think I can stay with the tripod and the camera at the same place. So the idea is to use this Newsshooter Kit to get the signal wirelessly. So, what do you guys think?
Newbie question on wireless mic
- Thread starter AlexLF
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jamedia.uk
Well-known member
Yes and No.
Yes a wireless feed. Get it from the mixing desk.
No don't use the Rode radio system. It is 2.4Ghz and you will be fighting against *every* wi-fi and blue tooth system in the area. Which is "everyone" with a smart phone/tablet or laptop. most younger people seem to have the bluetooth and wifi on as default.
Use something like a Sennheiser G3 kit https://www.proav.co.uk/sennheiser-ew-112-p-g3-wireless-mic-set This works in a different frequency band and the G3's will pick a clear frequency.
For ambient or hall audio you could use a shotgun at the camera? Unless there is some one holding/guarding the remote mic in the hall it is not going to be there come the end of the gig. It isn't going to make that much difference to the recording compared to one a the camera.... Well it depends on the sort of concert it is. A classical chamber orchestra concert is not the same as an AD/CD gig
Yes a wireless feed. Get it from the mixing desk.
No don't use the Rode radio system. It is 2.4Ghz and you will be fighting against *every* wi-fi and blue tooth system in the area. Which is "everyone" with a smart phone/tablet or laptop. most younger people seem to have the bluetooth and wifi on as default.
Use something like a Sennheiser G3 kit https://www.proav.co.uk/sennheiser-ew-112-p-g3-wireless-mic-set This works in a different frequency band and the G3's will pick a clear frequency.
For ambient or hall audio you could use a shotgun at the camera? Unless there is some one holding/guarding the remote mic in the hall it is not going to be there come the end of the gig. It isn't going to make that much difference to the recording compared to one a the camera.... Well it depends on the sort of concert it is. A classical chamber orchestra concert is not the same as an AD/CD gig
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Capt Quirk
Veteran
Not to mention, you'll have a bit of delay between the sound from the speakers reaching the mic, bouncing around, etc.
Well, obviously I'll have someone guarding that mic. Sorry, I don't think I got the last part of your reply. So, using that stereo mic X is correct, right? I got that G3 wireless tech is better.
The concert is a children musical, so it's not hard Rock... Yet ��
The concert is a children musical, so it's not hard Rock... Yet ��
If the intent of the stereo mic is to get a stereo recording of the concert, you shouldn't place it in the middle of the hall. It should be placed just behind the conductor, above their head.
How do you plan to record the stereo mics? Will that be on separate tracks from the mixer feed?
If the house has mics set up with cables, why not just run more cables for the stereo mics?f
[edit] I think I may be misunderstanding your post. There is no house sound. The mixer is your mixer and you are recording just the stereo mics. Is that correct?
How do you plan to record the stereo mics? Will that be on separate tracks from the mixer feed?
If the house has mics set up with cables, why not just run more cables for the stereo mics?f
[edit] I think I may be misunderstanding your post. There is no house sound. The mixer is your mixer and you are recording just the stereo mics. Is that correct?
Ok, the plan is to use the stereo mic placed somewhere in the middle of the hall and connect it to channel 1 to dvx200. The other input is the mixer board IF it's available to me. Both of them should be connected wirelessly. Well, that's my idea. But I've never shot musicals nor concerts...
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
i have used a feed from a mixer to give the main audio. This can be hard wired or via radio (Sennheiser or similar NOT a 2.4GHZ type) Then a shotgun mounted on the camera for "room sound" and as a back up if the mixer feed fails. (this has happened to me)
Why are you going to use a stereo mic? The stereo will be created (if at all) by the mixing desk. I suspect, as in many (most?) concerts they don't output the sort of stereo you are thinking of. It is effectively the same mono signal to both left, right and other speakers. Certainly when a guitarist runs from one side of the stage to the other the sound doesn't "follow" them!
How many audio channels do you have? The DVX200 has 2 MONO channels. So your stereo mic on channel one is going to feed a mono signal to the camera.
Why are you going to use a stereo mic? The stereo will be created (if at all) by the mixing desk. I suspect, as in many (most?) concerts they don't output the sort of stereo you are thinking of. It is effectively the same mono signal to both left, right and other speakers. Certainly when a guitarist runs from one side of the stage to the other the sound doesn't "follow" them!
How many audio channels do you have? The DVX200 has 2 MONO channels. So your stereo mic on channel one is going to feed a mono signal to the camera.
You can't take a feed from the mixer and the stereo mic and expect to get any sort of decent results. Do one or the other, but not both. If you don't know what the house is feeding you, ignore it and place the stereo mic at the edge of the front of the stage and feed that to the two channels of the camera.
As said, you can't get a stereo feed from the mic if you are only sending one channel of the camera. This then also leaves you with a mono feed from the mixer and mono from the stereo mic. What you get is the worst of both sources and probably some bad phasing interference. Just use the stereo mic. You will be pleased with the results if you place the mic properly. Don't mess with wireless unless you have at least a G3 and even then, it will be much cheaper and better to use cables. There's nothing worse than having dropouts or interference during the performance.
As said, you can't get a stereo feed from the mic if you are only sending one channel of the camera. This then also leaves you with a mono feed from the mixer and mono from the stereo mic. What you get is the worst of both sources and probably some bad phasing interference. Just use the stereo mic. You will be pleased with the results if you place the mic properly. Don't mess with wireless unless you have at least a G3 and even then, it will be much cheaper and better to use cables. There's nothing worse than having dropouts or interference during the performance.
I don't think you should bother with an external recorder. Unless you know what you are getting from the house, and you really like what they are providing you, you are better off with just the stereo mic. If you like what the house is feeding you, then you don't need the stereo mic.
If you were to take a stereo feed from the house mixer, and combine that with your stereo recording, you will end up with phase cancellations. Combing the two in post will give you unknown results.
If you were to take a stereo feed from the house mixer, and combine that with your stereo recording, you will end up with phase cancellations. Combing the two in post will give you unknown results.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
Is "stereo" really going to be important for this? NOTE look at the microphones and see which ones are stereo and who they are aimed at.
I think I would use an RF link to get the mono feed from the mixer to CH1 and an on Camera shotgun to Ch2 then feed the stereo mic into an external recorder (eg Zoom or Tascam)
that gives you a lot of options.
I think I would use an RF link to get the mono feed from the mixer to CH1 and an on Camera shotgun to Ch2 then feed the stereo mic into an external recorder (eg Zoom or Tascam)
that gives you a lot of options.
Here are two examples of stereo recording. These are two different venues recording two different amateur groups. Two cardioid microphones placed in an x-y stereo configuration above and just in front of the group. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQEo89bO2HI
doubledark
Well-known member
Didn't someone who works in NYC post on this forum that he had ZERO issues with interference.
For sure, one can get flawless performance from wireless microphones in RF congested areas. Broadcasters in every city use them everyday for newscasts and other shows. We use wireless lavs for our broadcasts as well as wired lavs. We do mic checks before every show and put in fresh batteries every time. But invariably, if there is an issue, it is the wireless lav that has the problem.
It's a matter of reducing risks and lowering costs. A wired mic is more reliable, easier to debug, and less costly. But of course, wireless mics have obvious advantages.
It's a matter of reducing risks and lowering costs. A wired mic is more reliable, easier to debug, and less costly. But of course, wireless mics have obvious advantages.
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jamedia.uk
Well-known member
The Rode system is a short range 2.4GHz system. It is a very congested space with lots of competing and changing systems.
In a concert where "everyone" (100's to many thousands of people) will have a phone that is on the 2.4GHz band between the TX and TX you are using there is a VERY HIGH likely hood of a problem. You *may* be lucky and you may not. Finding out just as the concert is about to start that you can't get a reliable signal is not going to be good.
The Sennheieser system (and similar Radio mics) use a different band that is set aside for their use. It is a stronger signal with no competition and these radio mics pick an empty frequency and stay on it. (the rode tries to channel hop) The average radio mic has many hundreds of frequencies to use and it is rare that you get hundreds of radio mics in the same place.
The 2.4GHz system for wifi and blue tooth has fewer frequencies and, in the case of a concert probably more users than frequencies. You are likely to get interference during a concert.
That said if you are not in a huge room with 100's to 1000's of people competing for your frequency then it is a good system.
In a concert where "everyone" (100's to many thousands of people) will have a phone that is on the 2.4GHz band between the TX and TX you are using there is a VERY HIGH likely hood of a problem. You *may* be lucky and you may not. Finding out just as the concert is about to start that you can't get a reliable signal is not going to be good.
The Sennheieser system (and similar Radio mics) use a different band that is set aside for their use. It is a stronger signal with no competition and these radio mics pick an empty frequency and stay on it. (the rode tries to channel hop) The average radio mic has many hundreds of frequencies to use and it is rare that you get hundreds of radio mics in the same place.
The 2.4GHz system for wifi and blue tooth has fewer frequencies and, in the case of a concert probably more users than frequencies. You are likely to get interference during a concert.
That said if you are not in a huge room with 100's to 1000's of people competing for your frequency then it is a good system.
I wouldn't recommend it as a general purpose on camera mic, but if your purpose is to mainly just record the ambience of the scene, then it might be a worthwhile option to consider. For instance if you're filming landscapes or concerts, two very different examples but ones where in both cases you just want to record the general atmosphere of the place from the camera's PoV)
For live recordings like this it is alway very important to try to get as many multiple recordings as possible for safety.
I'd leave a Tascam DR60D mk2 with a USB power bank hooked up to the mixer desk. Then I'd leave at least one (preferably two, or more) Tascam DR-22WL recorders located in good spots.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
I agree backups are alway important. (as is live monitoring audio with headphones) this is why many (most?) recorders will do dual record and record to two track with one at a lower level than the others.
to @AlexLF some questions.
How big is the auditorium?
How many people does it hold?
How long is the performance?
What sort of band is it?
How far away is the mixer form your camera position?
Are the band/mixing desk using radio mics?
What is the purpose of the video?
Does it really need stereo?