Newbie looking for advice on lights and tripods

[kemijo]

Hi all, I'm looking for gear advice! This is a part of my post over at planet5D.com, my apologies for spam.

New here and about to dive into film making. I'm interested in trying my hand at a couple simple short film narratives that I've been kicking around. Starting with tried and true territory, but my goal is a cinematic look. I'm a total beginner to filmmaking but I work in VFX for film and commercials, and I have a background in post so I'm not starting from scratch in that regard. I'm interested in gear that is affordable by a newbie with a salary but still somewhat close enough to high end quality/performance. I don't need Arri HMIs but I do believe in buy once, cry once. I'll be shooting with a 5D3 and misc lenses (mostly Rokinon cines and some Canon still glass). Some other parts are more or less decided as well but I could use help choosing lights and a tripod/head.

I'm leaning heavily towards Coollights CDM Fresnels and/or Flos. Are both recommended? I could skip the flos and get only the fresnels, would that be better/easier to control? Not against tungsten but I was hoping for something with less heat and power use (on my home circuit) and still have a lot of output and throw. Not really interested in LED panels, maybe small ones for accents. Any opinions or other brands? Would cheap ebay brands suffice or will I hate them in a few months? How much light is recommended for a serious beginner? Also, what cheap but effective modifiers are recommended? I imagine these can add up but I'll probably need a fair bit...any good resources for tools/ways to manipulate light?

As for sticks I considered the Manfrotto 504HD/546K legs/fluid head kit but now considering Sachtler, Vinten, Miller, Cartoni. All more than I want to pay but if the shots will be that much better, then "buy once cry once" applies. I just need smooth moves with little backlash, sticks that can go fairly low/high and enough support for a heavier rig down the road (although they seem to be priced for the payload so perhaps this isn't feasible). Right now leaning towards Vinten Vision Blue or Sachtler Ace. Are they too much for a beginner, would the Manfrotto setup be fine for smooth cinematic pans/tilts? Specifically they'll be supporting a Fotga follow focus and baseplate, an Ikan VK7i, 5D3, lens with filters, batteries and not much more, at least at first. What about a dolly? Cost aside, any point in one if I can rent/make a steadicam/stabilizer rig?

Thanks for any help sent my way, all thoughts appreciated!

 

[Samuel H]

If it is on your budget, the Satchtler ACE is quite good. I have a cheaper chinese 7060 (the big brother of the very popular WF717), and, whereas I like my legs a bit better, the Sachtler head is really nice.

 

[kemijo]

If it is on your budget, the Satchtler ACE is quite good. I have a cheaper chinese 7060 (the big brother of the very popular WF717), and, whereas I like my legs a bit better, the Sachtler head is really nice.

Thanks for that Samuel H! Been looking at the Sachtler Ace L, I might look into separate legs as well, if it's that much better. The tripod is one of the parts I want to get right Might look into the Vinten and Sachtler home trial options as well, if they do that in LA. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Michael Carter]

I'm a big fan of the CDM and flo's and I try not to shoot tungsten unless necessary for feel or tech reasons (like shoots where the room lights need to be kicked off as part of the story - cold-start HID is not an option...) Notes from my daylight rig:

Richard's fresnels are really nice, a little pricey for the CDM but they're good units. His bulb/ballast combo is great for fresnel makeovers. Even better, a 150 watt grow or aquarium ballast will light his bulb. 150 HID for an old fresnel and $150 or so. Richard's bulb is a true projector bulb, not frosted like the Alzo.

The Alzo bulb & ballast ($140 or so) just rocks on and on for me. I stick two in an 18" china ball; I also have china skirts sewn from duvatyne when I need more directional light. Get on Alzo's list, they have the occasional 30% off sale. These things are just the bomb for daylight. The ballast will not work with the cool lights 150 bulb, flickers and shakes.

The Alzo can lights (HID) are... decent. A lot of soft light that's a little more directional. Look for 'em used, they're pricey for what you get. Sometimes they're just "FU, I'm not turning on".

Biax flo's are nice - but the chinese ones from Cowboy studio (amazon) and on eBay are really inexpensive. Look for models with "real" steel yokes, the quads kick out some serious light and duals are crazy handy. You REALLY NEED TO TEST ANY OF THESE DAYLIGHT SOURCES - ESP. CHEAP BIAX - for color casts. Shoot gray cards in a still life scene with a decent raw DSLR, and eyedropper the grays. Check the RGB values for even numbers, etc. My biax units are yellow and need blue PLUS minus green. The Alzo stuff just needs 1/4 minus green. YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW HOW TO GET EACH LIGHT NEUTRAL or you'll never be able to mix them and you'll be fighting with grading for hours. So mark each fixture or globe box with tape & a sharpie for the gel combo it needs. We're not in tunsgten kansas anymore with this stuff...

Get some 1/4 CTO for when you want to warm things up. Get some unbleached muslin for warm bounce.

I am in schoolboy-crush love with my 400 watt HID mogul bulb (6000k, needs 1/2 CTO and it's dead on) with 400 watt grow/aquarium ballast. I use it in chinas & softboxes. Ass load of nice light. Seeing 5200k moguls on the market, will be trying them.

I'd grab some used fresnels in the 500-1k range as well - with 1/2 CTB you get a warm kicker that hasn't lost all its balls to blue gel. There are times you're just gonna need to shoot tungsten, so keep an eye on eBay and Pyramid Films and gte some open faced stuff, fresnels and a leko.

Everyone loves c-stands but they're limited in use. Get a few, but get as many or more steel beefy babies for the same price. Amazon prime and adorama sell Kupo stands with free shipping, they have a dynamite combo stand that's all steel for $150 shipped. I'd rather have a baby roller than a c-stand ANY day. Sturdier, handy, easy to move, way easier to pack.

 

[kemijo]

Wow, thanks so much Micheal! That's a ton of great info, I'll pore over this (might need to research many of the terms you've introduced me to heh). Thanks a lot for taking the time! Because I'm new but I have a fairly decent indie budget for lights I might just go for the CDM even if they're a little pricey, because it avoids piecing together parts without really knowing what I'm doing Great advice on the tungsten as well, I had a feeling that sometimes it's just the best option.