NEW XL2 grab with 16X Manual lens....
- Thread starter MattC
- Start date
STORYTELLER32
Well-known member
I think the 2nd and 3rd grab are the strongest. But the color quality still looks simplistic to me. What program or filters did you use in post for the adjustments?
I'm just becoming less and less of a fan of this camera now that I've had some time with it. We were in the apple store the other day and did a lighting test, trying to adjust in camera color settings using gamma, knee and skin tone toggles. I'm not giving up yet because my DP has never used an XL-2 before and he said he's going to look on the forums for things he might have missed. But so far I'm really unhappy with the color we got in camera. Couldn't get a decent "day for night" look in camera and on my short with the DVX, all the day for night blue cast was done in camera. Didn't need to do a thing to it in post.
I seem to recall you mentioning something about each individual CCD being adjustable in terms of color. Or did I read that posted by someone else? Either way, is that a correct statement? And if so, how do you go about doing that? Also, I think you said there's a cinegamma on this camera. Could you tell me how to access that? I want to believe in this camera, I really do. I'm using it for this shoot and I want it to come out decent.
I'm just becoming less and less of a fan of this camera now that I've had some time with it. We were in the apple store the other day and did a lighting test, trying to adjust in camera color settings using gamma, knee and skin tone toggles. I'm not giving up yet because my DP has never used an XL-2 before and he said he's going to look on the forums for things he might have missed. But so far I'm really unhappy with the color we got in camera. Couldn't get a decent "day for night" look in camera and on my short with the DVX, all the day for night blue cast was done in camera. Didn't need to do a thing to it in post.
I seem to recall you mentioning something about each individual CCD being adjustable in terms of color. Or did I read that posted by someone else? Either way, is that a correct statement? And if so, how do you go about doing that? Also, I think you said there's a cinegamma on this camera. Could you tell me how to access that? I want to believe in this camera, I really do. I'm using it for this shoot and I want it to come out decent.
MattC
Veteran
Well, part of this is going to be a difference in workflow. I'm a fan of shooting relatively "flat" and doing everything else in post, so I would never consider trying to do a "day for night" in camera - regardless of the camera. The colors were punchier before I processed the footage. I use Digital Film Tools' Filmlab software and really like the results. I used their stock "push process" setting, so these images have been desaturated by a factor of 10. It also adjusted the gamma down by about the same. It added grain but I felt it was too much (15) and adjusted that down to 2.5 for each color channel. I may be doing the wrong thing by using the camera's Cinegamma function as well as the Digital Filmlab software though - I'm really just experimenting. The DFT guys said they recommend shooting as flat as you can and doing everything else in post (including leaving Cinegamma and Cinecolor off). I'm still not sure what combination I'll wind up liking the best, which is why I'm posting these grabs to sort of see what I like and what others like.
The menu system is pretty robust on this camera. To access most of these settings you would set up a custom preset and work through the menus for that preset. This is where you will find Cinegamma, Cinecolor, knee, and all the rest. Yes, you can increase or decrease the gain for each chip (same place) but most folks are not doing that I don't think. A more popular adjustment seems to be to increase the over-all color gain two or three notches up. Personally I like a somewhat desaturated look, so I haven't done much with that, although I did do that on the footage that you saw previously.
I have an idea if you're game. Post a picture of what you would like your footage to look like, but not too complicated a lighting set up. I'll then try and achieve that as best I can both in camera and in post and post the results. You can then tell me how they are off and I can try to make some readjustments.
By the way, if you're doing a lot of in-camera work, you might want to check out my XL2 setup sheet. It'll make your life MUCH easier.
http://www.birthofthecool.com/preproduction.html
Matt
The menu system is pretty robust on this camera. To access most of these settings you would set up a custom preset and work through the menus for that preset. This is where you will find Cinegamma, Cinecolor, knee, and all the rest. Yes, you can increase or decrease the gain for each chip (same place) but most folks are not doing that I don't think. A more popular adjustment seems to be to increase the over-all color gain two or three notches up. Personally I like a somewhat desaturated look, so I haven't done much with that, although I did do that on the footage that you saw previously.
I have an idea if you're game. Post a picture of what you would like your footage to look like, but not too complicated a lighting set up. I'll then try and achieve that as best I can both in camera and in post and post the results. You can then tell me how they are off and I can try to make some readjustments.
By the way, if you're doing a lot of in-camera work, you might want to check out my XL2 setup sheet. It'll make your life MUCH easier.
http://www.birthofthecool.com/preproduction.html
Matt
johnnyspacecommand
Active member
We can't tell if it's the jpeg compression, but the highlights are not compressed enough. The highlight "knee" is set way too high so that all the glints from glass look too video. The rest of the shot looks pretty darn filmic.
Q: What's up with the admin erasing all the XL2 posts?? That doesn't happen at DVINFO forum...Still trying to find out more about its capabilities than is on www.starcentral.ca
Q: What's up with the admin erasing all the XL2 posts?? That doesn't happen at DVINFO forum...Still trying to find out more about its capabilities than is on www.starcentral.ca
MattC
Veteran
Hmmm.... Ok, I did that (highlights) on purpose. In fact I spent an hour to get that effect with lighting, so that's my bad. I will say that the blockiness around the candle in the last shot, does not show up on my NLE. As for the rest, thank you!
I don't think the Admin erases any XL2 posts?? Could you be more specific?
Matt
I don't think the Admin erases any XL2 posts?? Could you be more specific?
Matt
johnnyspacecommand
Active member
I don't know if I agree with capturing flat and then posting the color and contrast...The reasoning is that by the time the unprocessed signal hits tape, you have lost signal by virtue of the tape compression system. Therefore, the data you are working with in post is not going to be as good as the signal that gets processed before it hits tape.
You should turn on the Cine-color (for that DVX100A like color), but the cine gamma is up to debate. Turning down the highlights "in-camera" may also help the glints off the crystal not look like video.
You should turn on the Cine-color (for that DVX100A like color), but the cine gamma is up to debate. Turning down the highlights "in-camera" may also help the glints off the crystal not look like video.
MattC
Veteran
I did use the cinecolor and cinegamma in these shots. But again, they were desaturated in post.
I've been contemplating getting Color Finesse as I've been told that if provides for more natural curves than MB or DFT. (http://www.synthetic-ap.com).
As far as what to do in post or in-camera, I don't know. That's why I'm experimenting! Thanks for the advice, I'll work on it.
I've been contemplating getting Color Finesse as I've been told that if provides for more natural curves than MB or DFT. (http://www.synthetic-ap.com).
As far as what to do in post or in-camera, I don't know. That's why I'm experimenting! Thanks for the advice, I'll work on it.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
johnnyspacecommand said:
Huh? :huh:
johnnyspacecommand said:
Check your personal settings -- you can change how many threads you see. At default, you only see about the last week's worth or so (I think). You can set it to see them all.
We didn't erase anything.
johnnyspacecommand
Active member
screen grabs
screen grabs
Thanks Mr. Jimerson. Will turn those settings on. (Foot in mouth.)
Matt - IMHO, the highlights are too sharp.
-John Cha
screen grabs
Thanks Mr. Jimerson. Will turn those settings on. (Foot in mouth.)
Matt - IMHO, the highlights are too sharp.
-John Cha
STORYTELLER32
Well-known member
Hey Matt,
Thanks for getting me that info. I'm sure the workflow sheet will come in handy. I forwarded all of that to my DP and he said he did mess around with everything you mentioned but still wasn't able to get much variance in the results. I'm still going to guess this is his inexperience with the camera because I've seen better results from this camera on various footage on the web. (I'm going to assume this was in camera examples and not just post work) We also have a Shake guru there so I'll ask him what's possible in post to achieve with the source footage.
About your grabs: I'm wondering now if the reason I'm seeing "simplistic color" is because of your workflow. Seems to me if you do nothing but get a clean image in camera, you only have your post filters to build on which might not have a sophisticated enough cinelook to them. Have you tried messing around in camera and then building on that in post?
Also, do you happed to know where I can download a PDF manual for the camera? The store seems to have misplaced their manual.
Thanks so much
Thanks for getting me that info. I'm sure the workflow sheet will come in handy. I forwarded all of that to my DP and he said he did mess around with everything you mentioned but still wasn't able to get much variance in the results. I'm still going to guess this is his inexperience with the camera because I've seen better results from this camera on various footage on the web. (I'm going to assume this was in camera examples and not just post work) We also have a Shake guru there so I'll ask him what's possible in post to achieve with the source footage.
About your grabs: I'm wondering now if the reason I'm seeing "simplistic color" is because of your workflow. Seems to me if you do nothing but get a clean image in camera, you only have your post filters to build on which might not have a sophisticated enough cinelook to them. Have you tried messing around in camera and then building on that in post?
Also, do you happed to know where I can download a PDF manual for the camera? The store seems to have misplaced their manual.
Thanks so much
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
MattC
I have to keep asking; is your monitor calibrated? These frames are so dark. Is this from POST? Give me a clean, untouched image from the camera. Out of the box so to speak. Do it! Do it!
I have to keep asking; is your monitor calibrated? These frames are so dark. Is this from POST? Give me a clean, untouched image from the camera. Out of the box so to speak. Do it! Do it!