New to DSLR Filming (Nikon or Canon)

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WJWProductions

Member
I Have never used a DSLR for filming, i am about to pick up, either a Middle of the line Canon or nikon.. my question is, which options would give me the best HD video, and EASILY be able to hook up a boom mike or such, for great sound recorded WITH the video. i do resize i have to look into a good lens, and rigs as well. Im just still unsure as to my camera choice. looking for (high-middle) of the line nikon or canon.. *would like the best low light shots as well* (will be used for shorts, and bar/restaurant videos) Thank You in advance. I am new to this forum, but it seems great! Thank You.
 
Wow, lumix GH2 does seem very impressive for film. seems like it would be a nice choice for easy good quality sound.. really love the flip out screen and external mic feed
 
if your use of the camera is 70% or more for video (as opposed to stills). and if you shoot ANYTHING other than indie features and shorts, id say hands down. the GH2 would be the way to go.

i looked at practically every video enabled "pro" dslr and every one of them was a significant compromise to one degree or another. but for my needs, the GH2 met my video needs best.
 
Welcome to DVXUser!

WJWProductions said:
my question is, which options would give me the best HD video, and EASILY be able to hook up a boom mike or such, for great sound recorded WITH the video.
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In-camera audio with DSLR cameras is not going to give you "great sound" at all, no matter which one you choose. Nikons don't even offer an external audio input that I'm aware of. Canons do, and the GH2 does, but you're up against a few other challenges:

- The cameras have Automatic Gain Control (AGC) that destroys any semblance of usable audio. In many of these cameras, the AGC cannot be turned off without a firmware hack.
- Cameras that do have manual audio level controls, with or without a firmware hack, still have sub-par audio circuitry with some pretty bad self-noise.
- The audio input is a 1/8" stereo mini jack at a consumer mic level. This limits the kinds of mics you can use without some sort of adapter cable or adapter box.
- There's no built-in method for monitoring audio while you record, which simply isn't good. It leaves you up to chance for whether you recorded problem-free sound or not. There are some workaround methods for doing this, but they require extra gear.

When it comes to sound, your best bet is to get a separate audio recorder with XLR inputs and good pre-amps. Search the forums here... it's been discussed ad nauseum.

WJWProductions said:
*would like the best low light shots as well* (will be used for shorts, and bar/restaurant videos)
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They can all give good results, depending on your needs and your capabilities. I think the common wisdom is that Canon is the better performer in low-light, but Panasonic has less aliasing and moire. Nikon, I believe, is the better choice for stills but not for video... their selection of video frame rates in HD isn't as good as they only offer 24p in 1080 mode (no 30p or 60i). Also, the Panasonic GH2 offers 1080p24 and 1080i60, whereas the Canons offer 1080p24 and 1080p30... so it also depends on whether you need 60i or 30p.

As wgzn said, each one is a compromise of some kind. You just need to figure out which features really matter to you, personally, and go from there.
 
You *CAN* get decent and usable audio in-camera with DSLRs, however it gets complicated. C2V's advice to go with an external recorder is pretty much accepted around here as standard, however I hate the idea of bring an external recorder and syncing up in post, so I avoid it whenever possible. If you look at the threads in my sig, you can see that in-camera audio is very possible with specific models and the right kind of input.
 
for my purposes, the territory of dslrs is in more filmic situations. where the use of external audio recorders is more accepted if not preferred anyway
 
Forget Nikon unless you already have a Nice collection of Nikon glass or you intend to primarily shoot stills.

If you want decent audio from a DSLR, without using an external recorder, then you're pretty much limited to the 550d/t2i or the 5dmk2 which both have a Magic Lantern firmware hack available. This gives you full time audio meters and level control, plus the ability to use the AV jack to connect headphones.

The 60d and new 600d offer manual audio levels and meters but only in preview mode. So once you are recording you can't monitor or change anything.

I've used a GH1 and loved the pictures from it as well as the more video-focused design, but there were a few things that made me get rid of it. My biggest biff with it was that it had much better AF and AE than the Canons, but in order to take advantage of it you need to use native m4/3rds lenses which doesn't give you alot of choice. I know they've improved alot with the GH2 but I can't comment on it because I never used it.
 
C2V said:
Welcome to DVXUser!



In-camera audio with DSLR cameras is not going to give you "great sound" at all, no matter which one you choose. Nikons don't even offer an external audio input that I'm aware of. Canons do, and the GH2 does, but you're up against a few other challenges...
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The Nikon D7000 does have an external audio input. As much as I love it, I have to agree that if you aren't planning on shooting a lot of stills, Nikon is not the best choice.
 
apart from having the cleanest images (in terms of aliasing and moire), the GH2 is also the best low light performer: not only are high ISO values relatively clear of noise (cleaner than with the 5D, and much cleaner than with APS-C canons), but there's a great ultra-fast lens available for it: the voigtlander 25mm f/0.95; and with the smaller sensor you can use a faster lens and don't get too shallow depth of field (at f/0.95, DoF is just the same as f/1.8 on a 5D, but you're getting nearly four times more light into the sensor)

still, some people just like the canon look better
 
Im confused, i really don't know how to go about this. i need 2 cameras for a short i am writing. I may go with a 7D body (camera A) a T2i body (camera B) Lens, just a good standard 50mm, my 2nd lens, i need to figure out.. a close up lens. 55-250mm? (nice for close pan shots) Background out of focus, (selective focus/ depth of veiw shots) ??

for sound, im guessing i'll have to go with recording it separate. but im concerned about having to sync audio in the post. hope im on the rite track for what i need. ANY help would be appreciated greatly. is going with an external recorder my only choice for good sound.. indoor, and outdoor short film., Correct camera and lens for good selective focus/ depth of veiw shots?
 
Are you absolutely sold on the idea that you need two cameras? Buying two cameras just because the current project needs it may be a wasted investment, honestly. Why not shoot single-camera (as is most common in film) and use the extra money on better glass? The T2i would be a fine B-cam for a 7D... or you could go with a single T2i, or T3i, or 60D, or 7D.

Lenses are going to be your most important tool for the picture. The kit lens and a 50mm prime seem to be a popular starting place, and can get some things done, but if you can start with a better selection of glass then do it.

WJWProductions said:
Correct camera and lens for good selective focus/ depth of veiw shots?
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The camera body does not determine focus/depth of field for your shots. Aperture defines that, which is a function of the lens. The wider the aperture (lower number), the shallower the focus.

As for sound, and I know this is going to start a debate (sigh...), but external really is the way to go. Yes, there is Magic Lantern. Yes, ML's audio tools plus an external pre-amp like the JuicedLink will result in a vast improvement over what the camera can do on its own (in fairness, there's not much room to go anywhere but up). That said, the camera's audio circuits are still sub-par (fine for Internet-only material I suppose, but not something I'd consider for theatrical release), and even with the ML hack and an external pre-amp I still wouldn't choose it over a good second-system kit.

Syncing in post isn't the big deal that it can seem to be. Get a dumb slate and you don't even have to worry about things like Plural Eyes (helpful though it is, the software isn't an absolute must). Just make sure that you slate every shot (visually and aurally) and that you take very good notes in the field, and log every audio and video clip with file number, scene, shot, and take. Plural Eyes or no Plural Eyes, you'll be lost without an accurate production log.

I would highly recommend that you go ahead and invest in a Rode VideoMic Pro, if for nothing else than for better reference (scratch) audio on the camera. Even with double-system sound, the camera's internal mic isn't going to be of much use for reference audio when you go to sync files.
 
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WJWProductions said:
Any advice or help Please, it would be HUGE help to me. Thanks in advance
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I think more people would give you answers if there were an obvious one. But there are so many "right" ways to do this, just pick one and master it!

I personally like recording directly into the camera so I don't need to sync in post (which can be done with a 5D/t2i), however it has limitations. I prefer it because most of my shoots involve interview style shots, and the extra step to sync up cameras and audio is hardly worth it.

BUT... if you are shooting multiple cameras, and will need to sync everything up in post no matter what, you might as well just get a Zoom H4N or similar external recorder and go with it externally. It will actually make your job syncing easier, as you have one master audio track to connect all the linked videos to.

As for lenses, there are SO many options that have pros and cons, it depends entirely on you. Lower the aperture, the better selective DOF. Its easier to find long lenses at good apterture than wide ones (50 being the most common, but I've seen plenty of 85mm, etc at well under F/2.0. Not so much on the super-wide end, at least not without getting REALLY expensive!). Zooms will almost always have slower and higher aperture values than primes, so I'd look at primes if I were you. Also, it will depend on how you intend to move the camera. If you are using a long telephoto lens, like an 85mm F/1.8, you'll find that movement is much more sensitive (jitters, shakes, vibration, etc, are MUCH more noticeable) whereas a wide one you can get away without stabilization more often.
Figure out your style, shoot with different lenses and experiment. No one here can tell you what is best for you.

EDIT: See, C2V? Sometimes I agree that an external recorder is better!
Its just this fear mongering around the internets saying that good sound is impossible in camera, and for documentary style shoots, instructional videos, and web-distribution (or basically, just anything that isn't some kind of narrative being mixed in Dolby Surround), it just isn't necessary or always worth the extra steps.
 
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The 5D has a vista vision sensor, the 7D has more of 35MM sensor. Will the 5D get more shallow depth of field (selective focus) then the 7D, how could the newer version have a sensor, not quite as good as the older 5D?
 
Recently used a GH1 to shoot a short. Used Nikon primes and a laptop with external preamps for the mics. I was impressed with the camera when I got it and was even more impressed after shooting the short. Now I'm testing a GH2 for another short and I'm even more impressed!

I've heard the audio on the GH2 can be adjusted but I only use external audio so I don't know for sure.
 
WJW:

Synch'ing external audio with your video will sound more complicated than it is. I use an external mic on the camera just to give me a better audio track on the video to synch up my external audio.

Using the ZoomH2 (and a new H1), I start the camera and announce "CAMERA RECORDING", someone starts the audio recorder and announces "AUDIO RECORDING", then I announce "scene and take number", and then the command "ACTION". This last gives me a synch point, a "spike". At the end of the take I call out "CUT". So on both the camera audio track and the external recorder I have audible identification of the "take", and the "ACTION" and "CUT" mark the initial IN and OUT points.

Using the free AUDACITY program I find and mark those points and after adjusting the audio level (if necessary) I "export" the marked portion (containing the "ACTION" and "CUT" sound spikes and everything in between) to a WAV file with a filename that reflects scene and take ID so I know what it is.

Then it's a simple matter of "pasting" that WAV file on the extra audio track in the NLE and dragging it until the "ACTION" spike lines up with that on the camera audio track (using the waveforms). A little adjustment (using an expanded timeline) is usually necessary to get rid of "echo" and when that is gone I mute the camera audio track and can then "trim" to the IN and OUT points I really want.

Sounds more complicated than it really is. And by using a quality mic on the camera I could use that audio if for some reason the external audio didn't turn out. Once I had a sound guy who didn't know the ZoomH2, he got confused on what was recording and what was standby so he had the unit recording in between takes and in standby while we were filming. Fortunately the camera audio was fairly usable in that case.
 
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