FS5: "New tests show Sony FS5 macro-blocking and noise issues when recording 4K internally

4k is quad hd which means each frame quarter is basically 25mbs 420 - no shock that 25mbs 420 looks weak if you ever owned an fs100
 
morgan_moore said:
4k is quad hd which means each frame quarter is basically 25mbs 420 - no shock that 25mbs 420 looks weak if you ever owned an fs100
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Erm... Actually 25mb/s looked pretty good on the FS100. And 100mb/s looks very good on the A7Rii / A7Sii... The FS5 at higher ISOs looks like it's spreading 25mb/s across the whole 4k. Heck YouTube 4K compression looks better!
 
There is a huge difference to the way XAVC works compared to AVCHD. XAVC is geared toward preserving motion and detail this means it'll crunch areas which it considers less important and it will crunch them heavily. AVCHD will spread the bitrate across the image and will and crunch moving objects when it runs out of puff and as a consequence the artefacts are far less ugly.

These same artefacts are present in the FS7 XAVC but the FS7 has more bitrate to play with so they're not so obvious but the ugly macro blocking is there waiting to appear. I don't rate XAVC as a codec and I'm going to get an external recorder to avoid it where possible.

I rather doubt any firmware fix by Sony will come to the rescue unless they tweak XAVC.
 
Fairly disappointing seeing that... and once you factor in the cost of a recorder, might as well go for an FS7.
Almost seems like it should have been an HD-only camera unfortunately
 
chappelldigital said:
Fairly disappointing seeing that... and once you factor in the cost of a recorder, might as well go for an FS7.
Almost seems like it should have been an HD-only camera unfortunately
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Yes. Absolutely agree. However as a (slightly) cheaper little FS7, if you keep to base ISO 3200, it's fine in 4K. (HD buys you more color bits, but it's only slightly less noisy). The key here is that because of the need to use a recorder to go higher, if one doesn't already have an FS7 it's asinine to not spend the extra $2400 to get an FS7. It's a far more capable camera.

In regards to using an A7RII instead, you can... (Doesn't overheat anymore with latest FW shockingly). However you're still limited by battery and the 30 min limit (gotta keep pressing record) and lack of NDs and built in XLR. That's why you'd move to an FS5 to gain that video camera centric function. If only the A7RIi wasn't so much cleaner at higher ISOs...

Bottom line id tell anyone considering Sony in this price range that they'd be wasting money buying an FS5 as an A cam. They'd be better off saving up for an FS7. The cost difference isn't much really. Even considering media. Or buy an A7RII or A7SII and an XLR pack. But if you already have an A7RIi or FS7, the fs5 is a fine B/gimbal camera.

I I just wish they would clean up the noise. It's an engineering defect because the A7RII doesn't do that and it's the same codec and bitrate.
 
NeedCreative said:
I I just wish they would clean up the noise. It's an engineering defect because the A7RII doesn't do that and it's the same codec and bitrate.
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The A7RII uses the XAVC-S codec which I believe is just 8 bit AVCHD at 50 Mbps which is probably why it looks better than XAVC-L at the same 50 Mbps bitrate. AVCHD will have more bits to spread around in the darker tones and skies etc.
 
NeedCreative said:
Bottom line id tell anyone considering Sony in this price range that they'd be wasting money buying an FS5 as an A cam. They'd be better off saving up for an FS7. The cost difference isn't much really. Even considering media. Or buy an A7RII or A7SII and an XLR pack. But if you already have an A7RIi or FS7, the fs5 is a fine B/gimbal camera.
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ABSOLUTELY! I couldn't agree more your advice. The two cameras have virtually nothing in common beyond using the same sensor.
 
As a FS5 owner (amongst other cams) I also agree. i bought the FS5 PRIMARILY for it's small form factor and as a Full HD 10-bit 4.2.2 cam - with some high frame rate options. It's small and flexible form factor were a MAJOR consideration for me as I wanted a lightweight cam for gimbal work (in my case a Letus Helix Jr). 4K capability was always a secondary consideration for me - just as well judging how this is beginning to pan out! I never expected it to be stella at only 100Mbps 4.2.0 Long GoP anyway!

I looked very, very, hard at the FS7 (and I could have easily afforded it - heck i was even considering the C300MkII at one point) but did not want something as big and heavy as the FS7 and 4K is not (yet) a major consideration with my clients. When Sony bring out the almost inevitable FS7 MkII I'll probably jump on it - hopefully it will incorporate some of the amazing features of the FS5 like the variable ND - but for now the FS5 more than complements my other cams capabilities in what I need. I'll just make sure i don't shoot any QFHD in low light! (for lock down interviews in good light it'll probably not be an issue).
 
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I'm definitely going for the A7rii over the FS5 as b-cam to my F55 or in cases where compact or higher risk recording is required. Decision made.
 
Honestly I would not buy a camera now with shortfalls in 4K - at least not for that money. 4K came so fast and since I own the FS7 I shot everything in 4K even if it ends as 1080 on my clients YT channel. IMO it's absolutely foreseeable that 4K will be a mandatory request from our clients. I don't know how long you plan to work with a new camera? For my experience it's about 3yrs and in that time the 4K request will outperform the FS5. It would be no problem for a 2,500$ B-Cam but not for a 6,500$ investment. just my 2cts (but I stated that it's too expensive from the very 1st day)
 
I think it's a pretty solid camera and like a lot of features on it. I definitely like it a lot more than the c100 i've used for years. I think early reviews of any camera to the market are always nitpicked and every camera has weaknesses and strengths. There hasn't been a camera I've owned that the early reviews just after launch always say they underwhelmed, or the codec is flawed, etc. Fast forward a few months, you see all these rave reviews of people saying it's their favorite camera, etc. For me the fs5 has more strengths for my shooting style and uses then weaknesses.
 
I agree! Very well put! No it is not perfect, certainly not as a 4K cam, but for what I bought it for it is an absolutely lovely tool that will serve me well and make me good money. I am happy.
 
So the moral of the story is

1) News Shooter doesn't actually test for themselves just repost stuff they find on the web (this is actually good to know)
2) the smaller sensor in the fs5 isn't as good as the full frame sensor in the A7... I wouldn't have expected anything else
3) shooting and grading SLOG from internal 8 bit isn't the best idea, especially with noise in the underexposed areas... figured that was common knowledge
4) grading SLOG with Filmconvert seems questionable, I don't really think it maters at all but do they even have the fs5 as an optional camera? (another variable)

Things that bug me about the FS5

1) no freaking waveform!
2) no waveform or even histogram in S&Q mode
3) I can't change the ISO in Super Slow motion or shutter from the grip but without a histogram I guess thats a moot point :)
4) can't program a grip button for AF on
5) can't rename my tweaked picture profiles
6) I shoot outside often and wish I could have just auto WB (not auto cam) for those days when the clouds are rolling past
7) really should have kept the tabs ion the LCD, would have been nice to add a light weight loupe


The things I like list would be long so I will just say I am happy with the camera, going to be nice having such a small form factor but without giving up button controls (I dislike going into menus when Im shooting)
 
The waveform is a big bummer I will admit! I thought there was an auto WB feature without being in full auto mode. If you toggle up with the joystick on WB you can select AWB
 
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