FS7: New Sony PXW-FX9 with venice features and 6k full frame

cyvideo said:
I'm trying to justify keeping old faithful and getting the FX9. I often have two camera ops and have been using A7III as B cam for shoots when it's a 4K 25p shoot. Sometimes though I have to hire another FS7 for those jobs that require 2 x 4K 50p cams. 50p HD has been no problems but those 50p 4k jobs are starting to creep up. There again there are going to be some good used FS7 MKII's coming on the market next year. My wallet says good used FS7II... but I 'want' an FX 9.

Chris Young
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While it may be unlikely, it would be a bummer to purchase an Fs7mk2 and then receive an inquiry for a 3-day job and the inquiring party says “The Fs7mk2 does full-frame, right? Because we want full-frame.” And then you lose a job where you would have made roughly what the Fx9 costs over the Fs7mk2.

Then again, one could invest in an Fx9 and lose a job because the client wants a C500mk2. As an owner-Op it isn’t financially possible for most to own every camera. That’s why it is good to have a relationship with owner-Ops who own what you do not. You rent them what they don’t own and vice-versa. You help each other satisfy client wants.
 
Donny 123 said:
For me I,d love to keep the f5.. but also I have PL mount lenses .. it will probably come down to if there is any sort of trade in deal going on.. also a worry re the first firmwares .. always there will be problems its seems .. the camera is for sure a must.. just wait .. within a year every production will want FF, Venice color.. for no good reason of course .. but it will become the buzz word .. and everyone will pile onto the bandwagon..
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The FX9 body is far stronger than the FS7, so PL mount lenses via an adapter should be a safer option than before.

I don't think clients will be screaming for FF look. They already have the FF look via all of us working with Speedboosters. Venice colour straight out of cam and good low light performance are the things clients will care about most while the autofocus and timecode built in will make our lives easier.
 
You are right of course. I would rather rent off a rental house than a colleague as should an accident happen to the kit I would feel much better about it. I just know in my client list and market sector I have never yet been asked for FF. I've introduced it with A7s and Speed Boosters but that was my choice. MY use of two 50p UHD cameras at the same time would far outweigh any request for full frame where as you say I could lose out by not having an FX9 but that loss would be way offset by the extra 15-20 two camera UHD 50p bookings I could possible service with a second hand FS7. Adding An FX9 would achieve the same two camera result but then there comes the whole FF lens scenario to follow. The FF lens + FX9 reports starting to come in with regard to performance of NON Sony E-Mount and adapted lenses is not looking at all good at the present time. This present scenario could change going forward of course. Alister Chapman is reporting that big leap forward on AF using phase detection on the Sony FE lenses IS NOT working on EF adapted lenses or Sigma FF E-Mount glass. Apparently only Contrast AF is functioning. He goes on to say:

http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/


"The E-mount Sigma 18-35 and 20mm art lenses I tried were not at all satisfactory. The AF worked, but in what appears to be a contrast only mode. The autofocus was much slower and hunted compared to the fast, hunt free AF with the Sony lenses. You would not want to use this which is a great shame as these lenses are optically very nice.

It’s the same story when using Canon EF lenses via both Metabones and Viltrox adapters (I have not tested the Sigma MC11). Phase AF does not appear to work, only contrast and it’s slow.

So if you are thinking about buying lenses for the FX9 the only lenses I can recommend right now are Sony lenses. Don’t (at this stage at least) buy other brand E-mount lenses or expect lenses to be used via adapters unless you can find a way to test them on an FX9 first."

I don't have a big selection of Sony FE glass... like ONE only. So if I want the benefit of this new Hybrid AF performance I would have to look at investing in new FF Sony glass. Sony's better performing faster G series lenses don't come in at the cheaper end of the scale so that increases the cost of the FX9 package considerably. Most of my glass is S35 and manual and sure I could use that on an FX9 but I would have to ask just how much better would a 'crop 35' off an FX9 sensor be over and above the full frame S35 of an FS7 especially in HD, still the bulk of my work, as one is a straight crop, the FX9 whereas the FS7 is a 4K to HD down-sampled image. Sure the FX9 is probably way quieter and is going to produce nicer colors straight out of the camera but... There are still many points to ponder and the range of camera/lens combos needs to be considered and tested out first I feel. I won't be rushing in until the majority of thsee boxes are ticked.

Talking on lenses for the FX9:

I did come across one report where somebody said they were very surprised at the performance of the Sony FF 24-240 on an FX9 demo. This lens isn't parfocal. I know this from having used one myself but is is very close. In the report I read, trying to find it again, the tester said as quick as you zoomed in and out on the 24-240 it constantly maintained focus. He put this down to the new Hybrid AF in the FX9. With a 4.5 star rating and 148 pretty decent reviews at B&H and coming in at $950.00 this 10 x zoom even though it's not the fastest kid on the block might well be worth a check out and test on the FX9 when it arrives. A cheap longish FF native focusing zoom for that price would interest me for sure.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1380871-REG/sony_fe_24_240mm_f3_5_6_3_oss.html

Ken Rockwell gave it a pretty decent wrap. He even goes as far as saying "It has a built-in optical stabilizer, and also works with any sensor-shift stabilization in your camera. Focus also holds as zoomed. Bravo!" along with the comment "I don't see any focus breathing, making this ideal for cinematography.""

https://www.kenrockwell.com/sony/lenses/24-240mm.htm

Chris Young
 
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Liam Hall said:
The FX9 body is far stronger than the FS7, so PL mount lenses via an adapter should be a safer option than before.

I don't think clients will be screaming for FF look. They already have the FF look via all of us working with Speedboosters. Venice colour straight out of cam and good low light performance are the things clients will care about most while the autofocus and timecode built in will make our lives easier.
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Agreed sir.. I just think these things (FF) become a Buzz words .. it doesn't matter that something else can look the same..or better ..remember the HDX900 HD up rez being ok.. but the 720p Varicam being not good enough.. who could believe that would happen but it did throughout broadcast tv .. FF will become the "in thing" and be insisted upon.. the FF will become a thing.. guaranteed ..its been brewing for the last couple of years.. and will be promoted by the manufacturers.. s35 will be the next ⅔ inch..
 
I’m interested to see how FF rolling shutter on the FX9 compares to it’s behaviour in S35 mode. I can’t help thinking there will be a gotcha with that. I’m currently totally underwhelmed by the FX9, especially with the plastic EVF they kept on, despite us all whingeing about it for years.

Ben.
 
Such mediocre advances the last years.

The more i think about it, the less i need an upgrade for my 4 year old FS7 mk I.
 
That last YouTube link has some really underwhelming shots in it. I wonder which lens and what aperture on some of them, but I also understand shooting in hazy conditions. If ALL the footage looked like some of those shots I'd be worried.

The 12,800 ISO looks pretty amazing though. I don't even shoot 12,800 ISO on my A7s or A7iii.

The FX9 will be taking over for my FS5. The bulk of my work is interviews, and I'm loving the idea of dual native ISO. Dimming the lights for my subjects is going to be really nice for them. The new sensor and new color is going to translate well for my subjects too. I do think it's a little goofy that when the FX9 arrives my FS5 with the Inferno is going to have some better specs (think 4K 120p burst being better than no 4K 120p at all) but I may not sell the FS5 anyway.

Also - I fully expect the Sigma lenses to work well with the FX9's auto-focus, too. I reached out to Sigma to see if compatibility with the FX9 was on their radar, and a customer service rep said as of now only Sony employees and a few select shooters have had their hands on the FX9. Sigma is really good about releasing firmware for their lenses to make them compatible with the latest technology. They did the same for the Sony A7iii, and the AF on my EF-mount Sigma glass adapted with the EF-E MC-11 adapter works incredibly well.

Will the FX9 AF work as well with the Sigma glass as it does on the A7iii? Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. But it's on their radar, and I fully expect Sigma to release firmware after they've got their hands on the FX9. Until they do, I'm going to hang tight with all my Sigma EF glass. I've been focusing with them manually on my FS5 for years already anyway.
 
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LennyLevy said:
Does the AF on Sigma EF lenses work better with the Sigma EF-E MC-11 work better than with the metabones?
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Absolutely. The MC-11 is engineered to work with Sigma glass. As long as I have my firmware updated on my MC-11 adapters and my lenses they work great.

For example, I purchased the Sigma 70-200 Sport 2.8 a few months ago. Put it on the MC-11 adapter and onto my A7iii. Auto-focus was unresponsive. I thought my lens was defective. Then I had the thought that my MC-11s may have new firmware available. Sure enough, they did. Updated the firmware through the Sigma USB dock and my 70-200 worked perfectly. It's amazing what Sigma is able to do via a firmware update. That's why I believe they'll get things right with the FX9 as well.

I don't expect the FX9 market to be as large as the A7iii market. Not even close. But Sigma is going to want their lenses compatible with the latest technology so people continue to purchase them.
 
I picked up the Sony F4 24-105 and 16-35 for use with my A7iii and the AF on the FS7 works pretty well already though on the 18-110 it could definitely be faster . haven't tried 18-110 on the A7.
 
cyvideo said:
Anyone interested in the history of the F65 might be interested to watch the following clips. The camera had enormous potential.

Eldorado (Cutis Clark ASC) This film had some beautiful shots and grades from the F65
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yhu-UjpVx0

Oblivion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBVkUb_TWp8

Lucy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVt32qoyhi0

and the last one of any note that had some extreme grades was
Wonder Wheel (Dec 2017)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFM0UqX9MJ8

Grading F65 SLog2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWwmIwxd4YA

With complete packages like this turning up fairly often on eBay I get tempted sometimes. I've always liked the F65 but if I did pick one up it would purely be a "me" lovely toy indulgent purchase as there is absolutely no way I could justify buying one for the business. I'll probably never end up with one but it is a camera that has held my attention ever since it came out.

https://ebay.to/2OivT7L

Chris Young
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The thing about the F65 is that it never looked any great. Oblivion is about the only movie which looked really great. This plus the cumbersomeness and huge size killed the camera. Just look how much used ones are selling for and not even the indie market want it. As soon as the F35 started dropping in price indies started to snap it. In the beginning I think they were paying over $15K for used F35s and it became a thing for indies. F65s are already selling for $8K and nobody really cares much.
 
Very true. It's not the price of the cameras reflecting what the camera is capable of but it is the media and everything else associated with the F65 that adds big costs to a cheap camera head purchase. From an Indy perspective the added cost of a used Sony SR-R4 Dockable Memory Recorder, around $3-5K plus the media, a new 1TB Blue costs $6000. A 1TB card hold 59 minutes of F65raw. An average price for used 26GB Sony SR-256S55 SRMemory Cards is around $500.00. Not many indies want to spend that sort of money on 15 minutes of recording media. I know I wouldn't when there are cheaper options out there. All in all they are not a cheap system to run. Sure you may buy a head at a reasonable price but just make sure you know what the ongoing membership fees are in "Club 65."

Chris Young
 
J.Brown said:
If I find a good deal on a used FS7 II I will go that route for now.

FX9 looks to become a great camera but there's no rush going for it.
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I'm wavering on that decision myself... either will be a good choice financially (assuming I keep getting the same sort of work I've been getting), and I'd like to just murder my debt next year, but every job using the A7R4's video Eye-AF makes me edge towards spending the extra ~$3k (plus the color, and TC sync, and FF availability, and like-IBIS...)
 
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