New Sony HDV camera.

Re: New Sony HDV camera.

Hence vis a vis DVX100

this Sony newbie is a Resolution +, 24/25P - product....most probably.

So on the balance is it just +1-1=0 sum game ??? (from a videographer's point of view only)


May be it is just my COGNITIVE DISSONANCE as a proud owner of the 100a ;)

or may be it is my hesitancy to try any untested new technolgy from Sony. I have already been a victim of Sony's MICROMV stunt where I lost nearly 1500USD...just in the (now shattered) faith that Sony is a 'trusted company'...for new technolgies as well.. :'(
 
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"So on the balance is it just +1-1=0 sum game"

Until some more information are to be announce on the 24p issue, this sound perfectly right. May be Sony just want to put a doubt in futurs buyers.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

i said probable because one, there is no mention of 25P with the new cam, secondly, In that case the price range should be securely well above USD 6000....just an opinion
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

First of all, there is no provision for 24P in the HDV spec. (but if they were clever, they'd implement it the same way Panasonic did on the DVX, they'd shoot 1080/24P and write it to tape as 1080/60i).

Secondly, Sony's US representatives don't even call it a prototype, they call it a "mockup". Third, apparently Sony has pulled the picture off their website. All speculation about this camera and its capabilities is coming from that picture, because the text press release said nothing about any features (other than a passing reference to 1080i).

So, to sum it up, there is no news yet. All we really know is that Sony intends to enter the HDV game. We don't know what the camera will do, what it will cost, what it looks like... anything.

Unless any of our European friends got into cebit and can give us an update!
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

[quote author=the-lyons-den.com link=board=nws;num=1079563247;start=25#25 date=03/18/04 at 10:18:59]yeah, and i am sure that wasnt planned.  get the old speculation/hype machine rolling...[/quote]

For sure. Let's see now... Up for a day or about 5,000,000 hits, pull it down x .01% (converted DVX would-be buyers into fence sitters) = 500 DVX purchases put on hold... Hummm, makes you wonder doesn't it :o

-Rodger
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=nws;num=1079563247;start=0#17 date=03/17/04 at 22:03:17]converting 60i to 24p with adding the "effect" of 24p motion takes about a week per 60 minute tape just to reneder.. and its not perfect.[/quote]

Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure you answered my question. First off, does Vegas _really_ render the conversion as slowly as you suggest? Let's set that aside and address the matter of internal pulldown (which the DVX does) versus the external pulldown that the (now) Sony Vegas NLE software does.

What is the difference? Why is the DVX way of doing it objectively better? The DVX is not a 'true' 24 frame/sec camera but a very, very good representation of 24p via logarithmic manipulation (don't mind the $64 terms here).

I am not in any way trying to knock the DVX, it's one of three cameras I'm considering for purchase. I am evaluating what's available today-the DVX, and what _may_ be on the horizon.

So, why is converting from 60i always going to be inferior to the DVX's 24p settings? Isn't that what the DVX does, convert 60i to 24p, only internally in real time?

If we are talking interfield twitter or resolution loss from converting 60i to XXp then question answered. If it's more than that, what is/are the factor(s)? The fact that this new HDV camera and Vegas are both Sony products is not lost on me. If *good* 24p can be achieved in software, this combination just might be a _potential_ DVX killer. Although if price is a significant factor, "Hello Panasonic".

Thanks for endulging my questions. If there is a forum that can intelligently address them it is here.

LHB
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

No, the DVX IS a true 24P camera. The CCD runs at 24 Hz, capturing a distinct and individual progressive-scan frame twenty-four times per second.

It writes it to tape using a 3:2 pulldown, so what gets written to tape is recorded as 60i, but what is captured is 24P.

It doesn't in any way convert 60i to 24P, it captures as either 60i, or as 24P. Very, very different process than capturing 60i and trying to convert that into 24P.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

I'll chime in with a couple of answers:

First, it won't really take all week to deinterlace 60 minutes with Vegas or any other software. It can be a time consuming pain, however.

Second, the DVX100 is indeed a true 24p camera. It can shoot 24 progressive frames each second (no faking any of it). It stores those 24 frames on DV in a couple different ways to maintain industry capatibility, but it is still a true 24p camera.

Third, lower cost HD will one day blow the DVX100 out of the water. We all know that and aren't arguing against it. However, this Sony camera may not do that for a number of reasons. Some of us like to shoot true progressive (for film output, for optimal DVD authoring, or simply as an aesthetic choice) even if we can only afford 480p resolution. We don't know if this new Sony camera will shoot progressive. Also, HD storage formats are still not very good. People can continue to say the JVC HD garbage has "more resolution" than the DVX, but I think they are full of beans. I have seen the comparisons and the JVC HD footage resolution is lost in Mpeg compression and full of artifacts. I don't call that an improved "resolution" because I don't count all those pixels that get lost or messed up.

If this Sony camera offers true progressive, 24-frame progressive, and resolves the current storage issues, it will probably not be ready to release for a couple of years. If it shoots excellent 1080i and resolves the storage issues, it may still take a couple of years before release, but it would be a DVX killer for most people, but not for all of us on this board. 24-frame progressive is an aesthetic choice for some of us. It makes sense to our minds and just "feels right."
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

The statement that the DVX IS a true 24p is contrary to what I've read, but I'm not going to argue the point. It may just be a technical distinction without a difference. The DVX appeals to me as well for those reasons you listed. My thinking is that with the extra resolution of the proposed HDV camera, a software conversion to 24p might look excellent even if the rez is lowered. Although, I think the mpeg format might hamper this possiblity.

It'll be interesting to see what happens after April. If the price of the DVX would drop $500.00US I'd jump on it. For now, I'm shopping the options.


LHB
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

If you read that the DVX isnt TRUE 24P, technically, I suppose you're right...it records at 23.976 frames per second, TECHNICALLY, so on paper, no it's not 24P. It's because 60i isn't REALLY 60i, but 59.97i, and in order to transfer it smoothly with a 3:2 pulldown, it needs to be in synch with this rate.

But can anybody really tell the difference? No, cuz there really isn't one...
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

[quote author=Everdene link=board=nws;num=1079563247;start=25#29 date=03/18/04 at 12:54:02]I'll chime in with a couple of answers:

First, it won't really take all week to deinterlace 60 minutes with Vegas or any other software. It can be a time consuming pain, however.
[/quote]

Dude.. you have obviously never used Magic Bullet with look suite maxed out.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

Jared,

I'm off the software thing (you convinced me in your posts months ago). However, I'd be curious what computer you were using. You know how quickly the capabilities of computers improve. The rumor is that Apple is soon to release a new crop of G5 computers, each model will be a dual processor. My point is that what may have taken forever last year, may only take half of forever next year.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

[quote author=magicdavek link=board=nws;num=1079563247;start=25#33 date=03/18/04 at 19:18:45]Jared,

I'm off the software thing (you convinced me in your posts months ago). However, I'd be curious what computer you were using. You know how quickly the capabilities of computers improve. The rumor is that Apple is soon to release a new crop of G5 computers, each model will be a dual processor. My point is that what may have taken forever last year, may only take half of forever next year.[/quote]

True...I think we should all wait for the "rumored" new G5 and the "rumored" new Sony cam before buying or shooting anything. That way we all have more time to work on our typing skills on these forums rather than actually creating anything. :)

I am just being facetious...You know...joking.

Andrew
Crystal Clear Media
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

Im PC... I dont use a Mac because they are like High-Fashion Models,  nice to look at, but a little slow... but, I still love the way they look, and the nice huge cinema display they make is an editors dream.

The Magic Bullet test I did was with a 4 station After Effects server farm consisting on average 2ghz processors with a gig of ram each. Mind you, I checked almost every look suite option that would slow it done, so I imagine a normal render may be alot quicker. Also, to be fair, I didnt actually wait a week, I gave up and quit after about 6 hours and not even 3% done. 

that was about 6 months ago, dont know how much times have changed, but I know my main rig went from 2g to 3ghz last month.. so who knows.

Point is.. Its a pain in the ass to sit and wait a day let alone a week to render something that you havnt even looked at, if you do it that way.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

oh.. Dvfilmaker, is a wicked software program for converting to 24p, and even for converting your DVX stuff into true 24p files, and is a lot faster.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

Jared,
Thanks for the info on what you used to do the software based film look. Sounds like you were using a pretty hefty set up. Comments like these are why I say I'm off the software kick. I'm still interested only for the occasional integration of old footage I may need to convert with the idea of mimimizing the obvious differences with DVX footage.
 
Re: New Sony HDV camera.

that is very ugly. even for a prototype.

it better look waaay different when the time comes.
 
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