G
the_director
Member
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/handycam/PRODUCTS/HDR-FX1/index.html
Sony developed their own MPEG2 processors; JVC used NTT models. JVC should introduce up to 2 new HDV models this year.
The Sony costs $3700; the pro version should be available in 1st half of next year at under $7000. Maybe $6999? The consumer model already has so many pro features, to justify the nearly double price, maybe the pro model will have 24p, hopefully. Maybe it will include higher bit rate, but this is not likely.
Lack of true 24p is not that big of a deal as you can de-interlace the footage and get nearly as good picture as if shot in progressive. We've shot sample progressive footage with the DVX and interlaced with PD150. After deinterlacing the PD150 there was hardly any difference in quality.
60i is perfect for slowing down to 24p (and deinterlacing in the process). The deinterlaced product can actually give you variable frame rate from <1 to 60 fps - perfect for filmmaking.
Lumier and others have some nice products to clean up compression artifacts from HDV footage. You get realy clean picture.
I think that this camera will become a great filmmaking tool. It deserve its own section in this forum, just like the XL2.
I wonder how long will it take Canon and Panasonic to catch up and introduce HD models. Canon is using Panasonic and Sony technology. Matsushita/Panasonic owns JVC so they should be the next.
Also check end of this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=def4639b6e8ae49732956b2e674f2225&threadid=30264
The guy (Hubrich) met with JVC's HD10 design team head and had other numerous contact with JVC because his company (Lumier) makes extremely good and popular software for HDV postproduction.
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/handycam/PRODUCTS/HDR-FX1/index.html
Sony developed their own MPEG2 processors; JVC used NTT models. JVC should introduce up to 2 new HDV models this year.
The Sony costs $3700; the pro version should be available in 1st half of next year at under $7000. Maybe $6999? The consumer model already has so many pro features, to justify the nearly double price, maybe the pro model will have 24p, hopefully. Maybe it will include higher bit rate, but this is not likely.
Lack of true 24p is not that big of a deal as you can de-interlace the footage and get nearly as good picture as if shot in progressive. We've shot sample progressive footage with the DVX and interlaced with PD150. After deinterlacing the PD150 there was hardly any difference in quality.
60i is perfect for slowing down to 24p (and deinterlacing in the process). The deinterlaced product can actually give you variable frame rate from <1 to 60 fps - perfect for filmmaking.
Lumier and others have some nice products to clean up compression artifacts from HDV footage. You get realy clean picture.
I think that this camera will become a great filmmaking tool. It deserve its own section in this forum, just like the XL2.
I wonder how long will it take Canon and Panasonic to catch up and introduce HD models. Canon is using Panasonic and Sony technology. Matsushita/Panasonic owns JVC so they should be the next.
Also check end of this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=def4639b6e8ae49732956b2e674f2225&threadid=30264
The guy (Hubrich) met with JVC's HD10 design team head and had other numerous contact with JVC because his company (Lumier) makes extremely good and popular software for HDV postproduction.
choseifunahara
Member
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
check this one also,
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&postid=218974#post218974
check this one also,
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&postid=218974#post218974
the_director
Member
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
Looking at the Panasonic prosumer 50 Mbps HD makes me think that Sony will not want to be outdone by Panasonic first so the prosumer version of the Sony camera may be 50 Mbps. It will be sold 8 months after the consumer version and will be nearly 2x as expensive so it should be quite different and better.
When Sony introduced 2100 they introduced #170 almost at the same time. The price difference between these two models is not that great. Bigger the price difference, bigger the fearures difference.
Looking at the Panasonic prosumer 50 Mbps HD makes me think that Sony will not want to be outdone by Panasonic first so the prosumer version of the Sony camera may be 50 Mbps. It will be sold 8 months after the consumer version and will be nearly 2x as expensive so it should be quite different and better.
When Sony introduced 2100 they introduced #170 almost at the same time. The price difference between these two models is not that great. Bigger the price difference, bigger the fearures difference.
Anhar_Miah
Veteran
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
;D @ That Cam guy
Damn it!! you got there before me!
hey are you some kinda Sony rep
Just kiddin 8)
;D @ That Cam guy
Damn it!! you got there before me!
hey are you some kinda Sony rep
Just kiddin 8)
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
You gotta wonder why they don't include progressive scan in a brand new Prosumer camera... 24P would have made this a killer setup for indie filmmakers! Is there something inherent in the HDV codec tha doesn't allow progressive scan?
You gotta wonder why they don't include progressive scan in a brand new Prosumer camera... 24P would have made this a killer setup for indie filmmakers! Is there something inherent in the HDV codec tha doesn't allow progressive scan?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
24p will be available along with some other goodies. ;D
But frankly, the quality of 1080i video is tremendous.
24p will be available along with some other goodies. ;D
But frankly, the quality of 1080i video is tremendous.
scharky
Veteran
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
[quote author=That Cam Guy link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=0#6 date=09/07/04 at 08:00:52]24p will be available along with some other goodies. ;D
But frankly, the quality of 1080i video is tremendous.[/quote]
Where did you hear that? I would think that if 24p and "other goodies" were available they would make mention of it. We already have enough rumors going on here.
[quote author=That Cam Guy link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=0#6 date=09/07/04 at 08:00:52]24p will be available along with some other goodies. ;D
But frankly, the quality of 1080i video is tremendous.[/quote]
Where did you hear that? I would think that if 24p and "other goodies" were available they would make mention of it. We already have enough rumors going on here.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
[quote author=Jaime Valles link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=0#5 date=09/07/04 at 07:47:27] Is there something inherent in the HDV codec tha doesn't allow progressive scan?[/quote]
HDV does not provide any 24P support. They provide for 1080i at 50i and 60i, and 720P at 30P/25P. No 24P support of any type.
Of course, neither does DV, and Panasonic did it anyway, so some HDV manufacturer may someday add real 24P support to HDV, but it'll probably be done the same way the 24P on the DVX is done. JVC has already expressed interest in making their $20,000 pro HDV camera shoot 24P.
[quote author=Jaime Valles link=board=nws;num=1094538727;start=0#5 date=09/07/04 at 07:47:27] Is there something inherent in the HDV codec tha doesn't allow progressive scan?[/quote]
HDV does not provide any 24P support. They provide for 1080i at 50i and 60i, and 720P at 30P/25P. No 24P support of any type.
Of course, neither does DV, and Panasonic did it anyway, so some HDV manufacturer may someday add real 24P support to HDV, but it'll probably be done the same way the 24P on the DVX is done. JVC has already expressed interest in making their $20,000 pro HDV camera shoot 24P.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
In the Japanese site, they talk about CineFrame 24 and CineFrame 30. I'm guessing this means they do an in-camera de-interlace/dvfilm maker type of thing, converting the 1080/60i interlaced signal into a simulation of 24P and 30P.
Also, while it looks like it borrowed many DVX features (such as the scene file dial, true manual zoom, real SMPTE color bars, focus peaking, and wide-angle lens), and added some that I really want (like the magnified view for even easier, more accurate focus), there are no XLR's... what a huge step backwards. I HATE how Sony always, always, always has to foul it up in one small respect, always has to come soooooo close but always leave out some CRUCIAL feature. I don't know if I could live with that. Is there supposed to be a "pro" version with real XLR's coming, or do they honestly expect someone to shoot high-def video but live with 1/8" minijack audio?
On the other hand, you gotta love Babelfish's translation. According to Babelfish, the new Sony offers a "Wreck Review Button".
In the Japanese site, they talk about CineFrame 24 and CineFrame 30. I'm guessing this means they do an in-camera de-interlace/dvfilm maker type of thing, converting the 1080/60i interlaced signal into a simulation of 24P and 30P.
Also, while it looks like it borrowed many DVX features (such as the scene file dial, true manual zoom, real SMPTE color bars, focus peaking, and wide-angle lens), and added some that I really want (like the magnified view for even easier, more accurate focus), there are no XLR's... what a huge step backwards. I HATE how Sony always, always, always has to foul it up in one small respect, always has to come soooooo close but always leave out some CRUCIAL feature. I don't know if I could live with that. Is there supposed to be a "pro" version with real XLR's coming, or do they honestly expect someone to shoot high-def video but live with 1/8" minijack audio?
On the other hand, you gotta love Babelfish's translation. According to Babelfish, the new Sony offers a "Wreck Review Button".
Thirsty
Member
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
Apparently there is a psuedo 24p mode according to this site:
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/article.php?filename=In-Depth-look-at-the-HDR-FX1\'s-features
"Indeed, being watched closely is Sony’s CineFrame24 mode of this camcorder, which will use 2:3:2:3 pulldown to give this mode. More details will be forthcoming"
Apparently there is a psuedo 24p mode according to this site:
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/article.php?filename=In-Depth-look-at-the-HDR-FX1\'s-features
"Indeed, being watched closely is Sony’s CineFrame24 mode of this camcorder, which will use 2:3:2:3 pulldown to give this mode. More details will be forthcoming"
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
Looking at the CCD's, it looks like they've actually developed a 16x9-shaped CCD. That's a first for the 1/3" size. It's also good news, I think, because it means they're not using the same CCD's as the JVC.
However, the pixel count is a little interesting: at 1.07 megapixels, it's got substantially fewer pixels than the frame is capable of. 1440 x 1080i would need about 1.5 megapixels to fully resolve the frame. Oh well, it'll still be way, way, way higher resolution than standard DV.
Apparently the CCD is also usable for standard DV recording in 16x9 mode...
Looking at the CCD's, it looks like they've actually developed a 16x9-shaped CCD. That's a first for the 1/3" size. It's also good news, I think, because it means they're not using the same CCD's as the JVC.
However, the pixel count is a little interesting: at 1.07 megapixels, it's got substantially fewer pixels than the frame is capable of. 1440 x 1080i would need about 1.5 megapixels to fully resolve the frame. Oh well, it'll still be way, way, way higher resolution than standard DV.
Apparently the CCD is also usable for standard DV recording in 16x9 mode...
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
..whats this about the pro model..wheres the specs..price? 24p? whats the point in having all that res for filmmaking if you have to cut it in half by deinterlacing? this camera has some awsome features.. like the LCD 4x zoom and peaking.. high res 16/9 chips. 12x zoom on a wide angle.. nice optics.. manual control.. but who decided to leave out 24p that just bites the big poopy.. they could cadance it in just like the DV 24p spec..
im without a doubt that cannon and panasonic will make similar -better HDV models which improove on the early releases like this, but include the 24p since they actually have a clue. then its a bucket im jumping into for shure.
..whats this about the pro model..wheres the specs..price? 24p? whats the point in having all that res for filmmaking if you have to cut it in half by deinterlacing? this camera has some awsome features.. like the LCD 4x zoom and peaking.. high res 16/9 chips. 12x zoom on a wide angle.. nice optics.. manual control.. but who decided to leave out 24p that just bites the big poopy.. they could cadance it in just like the DV 24p spec..
im without a doubt that cannon and panasonic will make similar -better HDV models which improove on the early releases like this, but include the 24p since they actually have a clue. then its a bucket im jumping into for shure.
the_director
Member
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
if you offset the CCDs, you cen get over 1080 out of the camera head. So the pixel count should be OK for 1440x1080
if you offset the CCDs, you cen get over 1080 out of the camera head. So the pixel count should be OK for 1440x1080
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: New Sony HDV Cam
You can use regular DV tapes to record HDV onto, so you could use MQ's at $5.65.
You can use regular DV tapes to record HDV onto, so you could use MQ's at $5.65.