New Sony FS5 footage

Filippos video looks wonderful. Never saw such a nice graded film from a FS7. Could there be a difference in the colour science of the sensor compared to the FS7? Or could we get this look with S-Log2 on a FS7 aswell?
 
NEEL said:
Filippos video looks wonderful. Never saw such a nice graded film from a FS7. Could there be a difference in the colour science of the sensor compared to the FS7? Or could we get this look with S-Log2 on a FS7 aswell?
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Same colour science between the cameras (FS5 can be pushed less as its 8bit). The image you like comes down to the talent of the person colouring the footage.
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
Same colour science between the cameras (FS5 can be pushed less as its 8bit). The image you like comes down to the talent of the person colouring the footage.
Click to expand...

Not exactly from what I understand, but I could be wrong (re- the same colour science that is). I was recently at a FS5 demo at Sony Pinewood and spoke to Sony technical gurus at length.

- Base ISO is 3200, and the FS5 does not have Cine EI and/or Custom Mode - it basically has a bunch of Picture profiles like Standard, Cine, Pro, and so on - not even hypergammas, so keep that in mind. Even though Slog3 is present, and although the sensor is the same, the processing behind the sensor is borrowed from the A7s II and FS700 not the FS7. The A7s II we know uses another Long GOP version of XAVC-L in 4K , which is of course XAVC-S = which in 4K is the same as XAVC-L same 8bit 420 at 100MB/s structure and processing required.

- The high base ISO (same as on the a7s) was another reason for the Electronic variND up to 8 stops built-into the FS5. This is their entry level 4K professional FS camcoder - interchangeable lenses, Super 35 chip, 4K (8 bit) and so on, and as such there are significant compromises compared to the 10bit FS7 - hence the lower (but not too much lower) price of the FS5.

- The viewfinder is basically the one from the RX10 2, IIRC so not that great. The LCD screen is quite nice and can be mounted on 6 or more places on the handle and body.

- XAVC-L in Full HD is 10bit 422, which is great. Sony see this camera more used for it's Full HD 10bit codec and Slo-mo plus compact size, more than the fact it does a very thin 4K on board. It's somewhat of a bonus on top of the other much stronger benefits.

- 2K centre scan is also available as standard so its a given that the FS7 will see firmware version 3 released before end of November when the FS5 ships.

- Raw is currently planned, but don't bank on it any time soon. It will be paid and will be very similar if not the same to the FS700. Out of a single 3G-SDI output to an Odyssey7Q+ or Shogun. Frame rates and such TBD.

- Side hand grip is different than that of the FS7. However the FS7 grip can be adapted - you would need to buy some specific Sony parts and an ARRI Rosette
 
k0bayashi said:
Not exactly from what I understand, but I could be wrong (re- the same colour science that is). I was recently at a FS5 demo at Sony Pinewood and spoke to Sony technical gurus at length.

- Base ISO is 3200, and the FS5 does not have Cine EI and/or Custom Mode - it basically has a bunch of Picture profiles like Standard, Cine, Pro, and so on - not even hypergammas, so keep that in mind. Even though Slog3 is present, and although the sensor is the same, the processing behind the sensor is borrowed from the A7s II and FS700 not the FS7. The A7s II we know uses another Long GOP version of XAVC-L in 4K , which is of course XAVC-S = which in 4K is the same as XAVC-L same 8bit 420 at 100MB/s structure and processing required.

- The high base ISO (same as on the a7s) was another reason for the Electronic variND up to 8 stops built-into the FS5. This is their entry level 4K professional FS camcoder - interchangeable lenses, Super 35 chip, 4K (8 bit) and so on, and as such there are significant compromises compared to the 10bit FS7 - hence the lower (but not too much lower) price of the FS5.

- The viewfinder is basically the one from the RX10 2, IIRC so not that great. The LCD screen is quite nice and can be mounted on 6 or more places on the handle and body.

- XAVC-L in Full HD is 10bit 422, which is great. Sony see this camera more used for it's Full HD 10bit codec and Slo-mo plus compact size, more than the fact it does a very thin 4K on board. It's somewhat of a bonus on top of the other much stronger benefits.

- 2K centre scan is also available as standard so its a given that the FS7 will see firmware version 3 released before end of November when the FS5 ships.

- Raw is currently planned, but don't bank on it any time soon. It will be paid and will be very similar if not the same to the FS700. Out of a single 3G-SDI output to an Odyssey7Q+ or Shogun. Frame rates and such TBD.

- Side hand grip is different than that of the FS7. However the FS7 grip can be adapted - you would need to buy some specific Sony parts and an ARRI Rosette
Click to expand...

Good info. Still seems like a great little camera.
 
Thanks for all the info kobayashi. Did you ask if they plan to put something like the A7s sensor in a video camera? Would love to a sensor like that in a fs5 body.
 
hgf4 said:
Thanks for all the info kobayashi. Did you ask if they plan to put something like the A7s sensor in a video camera? Would love to a sensor like that in a fs5 body.
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Any A7 sensor would need to be optimized for video & read faster to reduce skew. The FS5 uses the same sensor as the FS700, FS7, & F5, which is designed for video.
 
I am also a fan of the body design and quite frankly, this is what a lot wanted in an AF-200. Sony made it and Panny did not.
 
I feel exactly the same way. This is basically the AF200 I've been waiting for. At this point I'm just waiting to see some real world footage!

The only major drawback for me is the removal of one of the XLR inputs when removing the top handle. That seems a bit strange to me, as I can totally foresee wanting to remove the handle in certain situations, but not wanting to lose an audio input.
 
hgf4 said:
Thanks for all the info kobayashi. Did you ask if they plan to put something like the A7s sensor in a video camera? Would love to a sensor like that in a fs5 body.
Click to expand...

I actually did - they laughed :)

I was dead sure the FS5 would be full frame - but then they dropped the A7s II :) ... and Sony bosses in the UK didnt even know about it until the morning of that Friday at the start of IBC .... the FS7 leaks last year thought them well to tighten ship. I still think that FF in a camcorder body would be graet - they've done it before, but I guess that wasnt a great seller for them so that's that.
 
EidolonFilms said:
I feel exactly the same way. This is basically the AF200 I've been waiting for. At this point I'm just waiting to see some real world footage!

The only major drawback for me is the removal of one of the XLR inputs when removing the top handle. That seems a bit strange to me, as I can totally foresee wanting to remove the handle in certain situations, but not wanting to lose an audio input.
Click to expand...

There is only 1 x XLR on the top handle, the 2nd XLR input is at the bottom of the body - so you still have a pro audio in even after you take off the handle.
 
Eh... Not terribly inspiring, but I'd probably chalk it up to operator error rather than camera issues. There's some terribly exposed and blown out shots in the last quarter of that video. Like way worse than what my AF100 would produce, so I'm really hoping it's due to the operator.
 
You can tell by the amateurish way it's been shot that it's simply not worth judging the FS5's capabilities on the basis of that French film. Wonder if Sony will ask them to take it down! The FS5/Italian Ronin M film (that Sony blocked) was so much better!
 
It just shows that settings, glass and the operator are more important than cameras nowadays.
I can give you the italian clip from a C300. But only in HD and only up to 30 fps.

The FS5 looks very capable, has some downgrades from the FS7, but instead comes with a small body which has its own advantages. I really like how SONY sets up their lineup and although I am not a fan of SONY colourscience, I have to say this cam and the FS7 are currently the best bang for the buck.
 
alpi69 said:
...although I am not a fan of SONY colourscience...
Click to expand...

The traditional 'Sony Look' is not something I like either, but the inclusion of S-Gamut3.Cine should allow the FS5 to produce excellent color after application of a LUT (such as Sony's ALEXA-like), or skilled grading.

Below are some relevant articles by Art Adams.

What Alexa and Watercolors Have in Common

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/production/camgear/what-alexa-and-watercolors-have-in-common.html

Hacking Alexa's Rec 709 LUT into a Sony FS7/F5/F55

http://www.provideocoalition.com/hack-alexa-lut-into-sony-f-cameras

LUTCalc: Trials, errors, and a full-range LC709A LUT

http://www.provideocoalition.com/lutcalc-trials-and-errors-plus-a-free-lut
 
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