FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

mainstreetprod said:
Or, since Josh had a lot of issues and Liam didn't, maybe Josh got a bad unit or buggy software?
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Perhaps. But I think from the way the issues have been described, and having one of the cameras myself, not. The camera firmware feels incomplete. Considering how quickly the camera was brought to market after being announced, it would seem that Sony, like it's competitors, feels compelled to get cameras to market with basic functionality, and then improve on that functionality until superseded by a newer camera.

In terms of why some are complaining and other's are giving positive reviews, it in part comes down to how you use the camera. If you happen to use SDI based monitors, then firmware problems with HDMI output probably don't slow you down much. If you either don't use Canon lenses or happen to be using a combination of Metabones adapter and Canon lenses without problems, then the E-mount to Metabones adapter firmware problems don't annoy you. If you're shooting modes where the Vectorscope performs properly, you're not noticing the modes where it's disabled.

So the shortcomings are more obvious for some people than others. I suspect that a number of features and fixes are underway but didn't make the deadline for initial release. Sony hasn't even updated Catalyst Browse to fully support the XAVC codecs on this camera.
 
That might just be the case. Many bugs but user dependent they are an issue or not. I remembered my FS100 and Metabones adapter stopped to work sometimes and I had to reboot the camera but my F3 never showed any problems.
 
Viddovation said:
I bought two 64GB XQD cards. I've only done one client job with the camera so far, in 1080p23.98. I used the XDCAM HD422 50Mbps codec. Each card was good for 137 minutes. I ended up using almost one full card.

I think the camera is going to be far more demanding in 4k, but for current 1080p delivery, it's pretty affordable.
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Great, thanks. I have 2x 64Gb cards at the mo and will get a couple of 128s for the 4k stuff.
 
Ben Scott said:
Great, thanks. I have 2x 64Gb cards at the mo and will get a couple of 128s for the 4k stuff.
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I personally don't anticipate much 4k demand just yet for my business. I may just rent extra 128GB cards when I do get a 4k request. I may also do some stock footage 4k shooting on my own, but the 64GB cards will be sufficient for that less demanding schedule.
 
This week I also plan on shooting some side-by-sides with the FS700+7Q. I want to compare 4K XAVC with 4K ProRes from the 7Q, as well as the FS7's 1080p w/ the 4KtoHD ProRes from the 7Q. And for fun I'll probably do MPEG2 1080p (FS7) and the FS7's SDI output to the 7Q's basic ProRes mode (not the FS700 RAW to ProRes mode).

Hopefully I'll just have a smattering of shots.
 
Ben Scott said:
tbh I love shooting 4k for 1080p delivery so will most likely default to that where possible.
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I'm primarily a freelance Videographer shooting footage I ship to the client without editing or grading. That client base currently wants 1080p delivery on most jobs. I'm very glad that the FS7 supports 4k so I'm ready when that changes, but for these clients shooting 4k would simply force me to add a transcode step into my workflow before shipping, with no increase in day rate or client satisfaction.

It all comes down to what your particular work flow and client base is like.
 
Can the grip be folded to the side of the camera near the body like the C300/fs100/700? I mean for using it like the C300 for example, which is the way I like shooting, like a regular handheld camcorder. If not, do you think I could remove the arm and hack it to be that way using another mechanical piece/adapter?
 
jshbckr said:
This week I also plan on shooting some side-by-sides with the FS700+7Q. I want to compare 4K XAVC with 4K ProRes from the 7Q, as well as the FS7's 1080p w/ the 4KtoHD ProRes from the 7Q. And for fun I'll probably do MPEG2 1080p (FS7) and the FS7's SDI output to the 7Q's basic ProRes mode (not the FS700 RAW to ProRes mode).
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Great idea and thanks for the effort it will entail.

Can I suggest you also test XAVC-L ? That could be an extremely valuable codec for people who have to shoot a lot of 4K in a day and are short of download time on set and/or expensive XQD cards. I've thought of it especially for interview or performance pieces where the shot doesn't have huge changes. If you're interested I would suggest trying it with shots that have little , moderate and extreme change from frame to frame. Also on another thread it was suggested that flash photography could be a problem with Long Gop and that would be worth knowing about.

For music performances in particular 4K shooting offers the editor double the shots for an HD show - a huge advantage. XAVC -L would be just the ticket where you might be shooting over 2 hours and multiple cameras to download. Big files can be a real drag after the show at midnight! However that's exactly where you might likely encounter flash also.

I think we may use XAVC-L a lot and find it a big selling point over other formats & cameras. Hasn't been discussed much on the boards yet.

thanks, Lenny
 
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gene_can_sing said:
Of course I understand the difference between color science and grading.

Overall, I'm very happy with the looks I'm personally getting from S-Log. Nothing fancy in grading, just some levels, saturation and some quick tweaks on curves. I didn’t spend more than a few minutes getting the look I wanted for these shots. Some are slightly stylized with a slight green or slight blue tint, some just normal.

I’m always curious as to what critics are getting from their OWN WORK that makes it so superior to Sony. I’d love to see some samples.

Here’s a larger image since DVXUser scales the .jpg down.

www.builtbyugene.com/images_client/SkinTones.jpg
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You forgot to over saturate and over sharpen!

Best skintones I think I have seen since film.

Thanks for posting these,
Robert A. Ober
 
Lenilenapi said:
Great idea and thanks for the effort it will entail.

Can I suggest you also test XAVC-L ? That could be an extremely valuable codec for people who have to shoot a lot of 4K in a day and are short of download time on set and/or expensive XQD cards. I've thought of it especially for interview or performance pieces where the shot doesn't have huge changes. If you're interested I would suggest trying it with shots that have little , moderate and extreme change from frame to frame. Also on another thread it was suggested that flash photography could be a problem with Long Gop and that would be worth knowing about.

For music performances in particular 4K shooting offers the editor double the shots for an HD show - a huge advantage. XAVC -L would be just the ticket where you might be shooting over 2 hours and multiple cameras to download. Big files can be a real drag after the show at midnight! However that's exactly where you might likely encounter flash also.

I think we may use XAVC-L a lot and find it a big selling point over other formats & cameras. Hasn't been discussed much on the boards yet.

thanks, Lenny
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I'll be moving from FS700 internal AVCHD to FS7 1080P, so a side by side comparison of those two, if even a few seconds , would be invaluable!
 
Viddovation said:
Perhaps. But I think from the way the issues have been described, and having one of the cameras myself, not. The camera firmware feels incomplete. Considering how quickly the camera was brought to market after being announced, it would seem that Sony, like it's competitors, feels compelled to get cameras to market with basic functionality, and then improve on that functionality until superseded by a newer camera.

In terms of why some are complaining and other's are giving positive reviews, it in part comes down to how you use the camera. If you happen to use SDI based monitors, then firmware problems with HDMI output probably don't slow you down much. If you either don't use Canon lenses or happen to be using a combination of Metabones adapter and Canon lenses without problems, then the E-mount to Metabones adapter firmware problems don't annoy you. If you're shooting modes where the Vectorscope performs properly, you're not noticing the modes where it's disabled.

So the shortcomings are more obvious for some people than others. I suspect that a number of features and fixes are underway but didn't make the deadline for initial release. Sony hasn't even updated Catalyst Browse to fully support the XAVC codecs on this camera.
Click to expand...

As an FS7 owner, I couldn't say it better myself. Half my evolving review is dedicated to problems with the firmware. No showstoppers yet, but lots of workarounds. Sony is listening however, I've been in contact with them quite a few times. The more these problems come up publicly the faster they going to fix them.

But your comment is probably the best I've seen so far, it all depends on what you're doing. It is quite possible for the average user never to encounter any of these issues. It all depends on how they're using the camera.
 
mainstreetprod said:
I'll be moving from FS700 internal AVCHD to FS7 1080P, so a side by side comparison of those two, if even a few seconds , would be invaluable!
Click to expand...
Haha, yeah I was thinking of this, too. I assume (hope) it's closer to the Odyssey's 4KtoHD, which is incredibly sharp and looks great. I remember going from a 7D to the FS700 and feeling like I was in a Claritin commercial and peeling away a layer of fuzz because the FS700 was so much sharper. Seeing 4KtoHD gave me that feeling again, times 10. I hope the FS7 1080p can compare.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Can the grip be folded to the side of the camera near the body like the C300/fs100/700? I mean for using it like the C300 for example, which is the way I like shooting, like a regular handheld camcorder. If not, do you think I could remove the arm and hack it to be that way using another mechanical piece/adapter?
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not really. But you can shorten the arm considerably so that it is right up against the front or back of the camera, and then push it against your chest and use it that way. Actually find it more comfortable to use than the old hand grip method of the C300. But no. You can't use it like a handheld camcorder per se.
 
Hey Folks,

Anybody try 4K (not UHD) from the HDMI ? Sony man tells me it should work.

Thanks,
Robert A. Ober
 
That was the original plan but I got a reply on one of the CML lists from Juan Martinez, Senior Product Manager, Sony Electronics and he said it should work with the shipped cameras. Internal recording still limited to UHD, but the outs are supposed to support 4K.

And please folks do not say 4K when you mean UHD. Such misspeaking confuses issues and humans.

Y'all be cool,
Robert
 
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